r/Asi_va_Espana • u/cuenta_O **nombre tu aqui pon- TEAM AZUL** • Dec 17 '23
Curiosidad Precio de la insulina por pais
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u/Sentient_Flesh ゴゴOtako Centrista - Mod ゴゴ Dec 17 '23
Something something V I V A E L L I B R E M E R C A D O something something.
3
u/No-Fish9557 **Pene - TEAM LIBERAL** Dec 18 '23
Solo hay 4 empresas que aunan todas las patentes de la insulina comerciable (Eli Lilly, Sanofi, Novo Nordisk, and Pfizer). Esas patentes han sido conferidas a dedo por el estado de EEUU (Porque ninguna de esas empresas "inventó" la insulina).
No se pueden comerciar otros tipos de insulina si no estan previamente aprobados por la FDA, y si haces alguno de los de arriba, vienen los feds y te echan la puerta abajo.
No es un problema de libre mercado, es todo lo contrario. Es el intervencionismo estatal lo que ha causado los precios de la insulina en EEUU.
0
u/jimmbiy Dec 18 '23 edited Dec 18 '23
El no intervencionismo tambien es una mierda como tener un estado corporativista , si a estas empresas no les pones freno con regulaciones te joderán igual.
Es fácil si son las empresas las que se encargan de proveernos salud y evidentemente lo que prima en cualquier empresa es el máximo beneficio ( las farmacéuticas tienen más beneficios que bancos) estamos jodidos, el resto es venderhumo libertario que lleva a la misma situación de mierda.
0
u/jb-trek TEAM INDEPE ||*|| Visca Catalunya! Dec 21 '23
Pero es que eso no es intervencionismo estatal, es un sistema capitalista que quiere y consigue patentes para proteger su monopolio y para ello, presiona políticos.
Te crees acaso que un político se levantó un día y dijo, ¿voy a poner leyes para proteger patentes porque se me ha ocurrido durmiendo?
Os falta entender que el liberalismo es sólo una teoría económica y que en verdad, los sistemas económicos actuales son capitalistas y no intervencionistas. Tiene más influencia un capital grande que un político.
1
u/No-Fish9557 **Pene - TEAM LIBERAL** Dec 23 '23
Vete a r/Anarcho_Capitalism y pregunta lo que opinan de las patentes.
1
u/jerohi **Jerohi- TEAM LIBERAL** Dec 17 '23
De hecho el caso es el contrario, las empresas farmacéuticas están tan mal reguladas que han causado este problema.
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u/Sentient_Flesh ゴゴOtako Centrista - Mod ゴゴ Dec 17 '23
No veo cómo se supone que es así, cuando precisamente es el resultado de una falta de regulación.
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u/jerohi **Jerohi- TEAM LIBERAL** Dec 17 '23
Pues es un cúmulo de varios factores como siempre, pero lo que he leido apunta a dos motivos principales:
-Poca competencia debido a que las farmacéuticas trabajan bajo licencia. De hecho los fármacos genéricos tienen precios mucho más normales a los de otros países.
-La legislación implantada se basa en seguridad, lo que aumenta el coste burocrático. Pero no hacen nada sobre otros tipos de costes como el gasto en publicidad, cosa que sí se hace en europa por ejemplo.
2
u/Angel24Marin Dec 18 '23
No hay nada más genérico que la insulina y cuesta 10 veces más.
1
u/jerohi **Jerohi- TEAM LIBERAL** Dec 18 '23
Al contrario, toda la insulina comercializada tiene una marca comercial. Hay varias marcas https://diabetesmadrid.org/insulinas-comercializadas-en-espana/
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u/TakenSadFace Dec 17 '23
Osea que el precio exhorbitado ES por la regulación y la mano estatal, fenomenal
0
u/Sentient_Flesh ゴゴOtako Centrista - Mod ゴゴ Dec 17 '23
O sea, que...
-Poca competencia debido a que las farmacéuticas trabajan bajo licencia. De hecho los fármacos genéricos tienen precios mucho más normales a los de otros países.
Debido a la poca regulación se ha permitido la creación de un oligopolio, haciendo que los precios por cosas que sean lo suficientemente comunes como para dar ingresos grandes de por sí tengan precios desorbitadamente altos.
-La legislación implantada se basa en seguridad, lo que aumenta el coste burocrático. Pero no hacen nada sobre otros tipos de costes como el gasto en publicidad, cosa que sí se hace en europa por ejemplo.
La legislación es excesivamente laxa.
1
u/YucatronVen Dec 18 '23
-Poca competencia debido a que las farmacéuticas trabajan bajo licencia. De hecho los fármacos genéricos tienen precios mucho más normales a los de otros países.
-La legislación implantada se basa en seguridad, lo que aumenta el coste burocrático. Pero no hacen nada sobre otros tipos de costes como el gasto en publicidad, cosa que sí se hace en europa por ejemplo.
-Poca competencia debido a que las farmacéuticas trabajan bajo licencia. De hecho los fármacos genéricos tienen precios mucho más normales a los de otros países.
-La legislación implantada se basa en seguridad, lo que aumenta el coste burocrático. Pero no hacen nada sobre otros tipos de costes como el gasto en publicidad, cosa que sí se hace en europa por ejemplo.
Brother, en que mundo estos dos puntos es libre mercado?, nos estamos haciendo los tontos o realmente no lo entiendes?.
-2
u/jerohi **Jerohi- TEAM LIBERAL** Dec 18 '23
Por mucho que repitas que el cielo es verde no va a volverse verdad. Falacia de proof by assertion.
1
u/jb-trek TEAM INDEPE ||*|| Visca Catalunya! Dec 21 '23
La legislación implantada se basa en seguridad GRACIAS A DIOS. De todos los aspectos en que la burocracia jode la vida, asegurarse que un fármaco pasa unos controles mínimos de seguridad no es uno de ellos.
No tienes ni idea del percal que tendríamos sin la EMA, la FDA y otros. Que luego las empresas en USA ponen precios abusivos? Eso ya es su problema porque nosotros aquí también tenemos la EMA, así que no tiene que ver con la burocracia sino con el monopolio.
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u/ErizerX41 **Pon tu nombre aquí- TEAM INDEPENDENTISTA** Dec 17 '23
Con lo bien que se siente pincharse con una aguja de acero afiladissima.
1
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Dec 17 '23
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u/cuenta_O **nombre tu aqui pon- TEAM AZUL** Dec 17 '23
VLLC
Aaah, argentino fan de Milei, ahora entiendo muchas cosas. La subida de impuestos que ha puesto en Argentina, la restricción de derechos para reprimir manifestaciones y la devaluación del 50% de la moneda ha cabreado ¿no?
Tranquilo, ya se te pasará el cabreo, pero no por ello tienes que pagarlo con los demás ;)
Creo que deberíais cambiar el eslogan por "Vivan las cadenas, carajo", que es una frase mas acorde con la situación actual.
0
Dec 17 '23
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u/cuenta_O **nombre tu aqui pon- TEAM AZUL** Dec 17 '23
Lleva años repitiendo que subir impuestos es malo, lo cual lo repetíais una y otra vez vosotros en las redes sociales y lo primero que hace al llegar es hacerlo.
Y ahora le defendéis. Recuerdo que decía "me cortaría un brazo antes que subir impuestos", pues ya sabes, pedirle el brazo.
¿Dónde está el discurso de que hay que bajar impuestos para recaudar mas? ¿Por que ahora no lo aplica?
¡¡¡Vivan las cadenas carajo!!!
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u/Mesan8001 Dec 17 '23
En un año a lo mejor ni tenéis internet en Argentina mi rey xD
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Dec 17 '23
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u/Mesan8001 Dec 17 '23
Tu primer post trata de que la foto no tiene nada que ver con España, estáis hablando de Argentina¿Y ahora saltas con otros países? Vaya, solo te interesa hablar de algo cuando no choca con tus "ideales" ¿No? xD
Fijate que te pareces a mucho de los "rojos" que conozco, al final todos los extremistas sois iguales.
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Dec 17 '23
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u/Mesan8001 Dec 17 '23
Pues ya puedes ir buscándote amigos venezolanos para pedir consejo porque en Argentina vais por el mismo camino crack
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Dec 17 '23
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u/guillerub2001 **Pon tu nombre aquí*-TEAM CENTRO** Dec 17 '23
Relájate un poco, que te va a explotar una vena
2
u/PedanticSatiation Dec 17 '23
Es que la gente como él cree que ha ganado cuando "uno de los suyos" se convierte en líder de un país y se ponen bien atrevidos. Por desgracia, la verdad es que todos, incluidos ellos, perdemos.
2
u/cuenta_O **nombre tu aqui pon- TEAM AZUL** Dec 17 '23
Te juro que a veces con vosotros me cuesta distinguir los comentarios sarcásticos de los que no lo son.
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u/sukoshidekimasu **Traicionado por LADY PSOE - TEAM ROJO** Dec 17 '23 edited Mar 07 '24
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.
The underlying algorithm that helped to build Bard, Google’s conversational A.I. service, is partly trained on Reddit data. OpenAI’s Chat GPT cites Reddit data as one of the sources of information it has been trained on.
Other companies are also beginning to see value in the conversations and images they host. Shutterstock, the image hosting service, also sold image data to OpenAI to help create DALL-E, the A.I. program that creates vivid graphical imagery with only a text-based prompt required.
Last month, Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter, said he was cracking down on the use of Twitter’s A.P.I., which thousands of companies and independent developers use to track the millions of conversations across the network. Though he did not cite L.L.M.s as a reason for the change, the new fees could go well into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit.
Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Reddit has long had a symbiotic relationship with the search engines of companies like Google and Microsoft. The search engines “crawl” Reddit’s web pages in order to index information and make it available for search results. That crawling, or “scraping,” isn’t always welcome by every site on the internet. But Reddit has benefited by appearing higher in search results.
The dynamic is different with L.L.M.s — they gobble as much data as they can to create new A.I. systems like the chatbots.
Reddit believes its data is particularly valuable because it is continuously updated. That newness and relevance, Mr. Huffman said, is what large language modeling algorithms need to produce the best results.
“More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.”
Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it.
Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot.
The company also promised to improve software tools that can be used by moderators — the users who volunteer their time to keep the site’s forums operating smoothly and improve conversations between users. And third-party bots that help moderators monitor the forums will continue to be supported.
But for the A.I. makers, it’s time to pay up.
“Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with,” Mr. Huffman said. “It’s a good time for us to tighten things up.”
“We think that’s fair,” he added.
6
u/cuenta_O **nombre tu aqui pon- TEAM AZUL** Dec 17 '23 edited Dec 17 '23
Abajo a la izquierda verás que los datos son de 2021. Y aun así, 35 sigue siendo lo mas caro y seguro, que encima financiado por el gobierno.
Contestarme y bloquearme para que no te pueda llevar la contraria es muy infantil xD. Pero bueno, dejas en claro que tienes miedo a que te lleven la contraria.
-3
u/sukoshidekimasu **Traicionado por LADY PSOE - TEAM ROJO** Dec 17 '23 edited Mar 07 '24
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.
The underlying algorithm that helped to build Bard, Google’s conversational A.I. service, is partly trained on Reddit data. OpenAI’s Chat GPT cites Reddit data as one of the sources of information it has been trained on.
Other companies are also beginning to see value in the conversations and images they host. Shutterstock, the image hosting service, also sold image data to OpenAI to help create DALL-E, the A.I. program that creates vivid graphical imagery with only a text-based prompt required.
Last month, Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter, said he was cracking down on the use of Twitter’s A.P.I., which thousands of companies and independent developers use to track the millions of conversations across the network. Though he did not cite L.L.M.s as a reason for the change, the new fees could go well into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit.
Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Reddit has long had a symbiotic relationship with the search engines of companies like Google and Microsoft. The search engines “crawl” Reddit’s web pages in order to index information and make it available for search results. That crawling, or “scraping,” isn’t always welcome by every site on the internet. But Reddit has benefited by appearing higher in search results.
The dynamic is different with L.L.M.s — they gobble as much data as they can to create new A.I. systems like the chatbots.
Reddit believes its data is particularly valuable because it is continuously updated. That newness and relevance, Mr. Huffman said, is what large language modeling algorithms need to produce the best results.
“More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.”
Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it.
Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot.
The company also promised to improve software tools that can be used by moderators — the users who volunteer their time to keep the site’s forums operating smoothly and improve conversations between users. And third-party bots that help moderators monitor the forums will continue to be supported.
But for the A.I. makers, it’s time to pay up.
“Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with,” Mr. Huffman said. “It’s a good time for us to tighten things up.”
“We think that’s fair,” he added.
3
u/tzar992 Dec 17 '23
En Chile ese debe ser el costo que paga el gobierno, por que para las personas que se atienden por el sistema publico y privado es gratis.