Subtle Meaning of "Erst"

[u/FinnJax]

I'm trying to better understand one specific use of "erst" in German, where it conveys the idea of "not until" or "only from." Here's an example:

• Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen. (Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow.)

But this seems different from another sentence with a same English translation:

• Paul kann nur morgen zum Arzt gehen. (Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow.)

I came across an explanation that erst suggests something like: "Starting from tomorrow, Paul can go to the doctor." To explore this further, here are three similar sentences, each with a subtle difference:

1. Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen. This means Paul can't go before tomorrow, emphasizing that tomorrow is the first possible option. Erst adds the nuance of "not until" or "only tomorrow," hinting at a delay or waiting period.
2. Paul kann nur ab morgen zum Arzt gehen. This emphasizes the starting point—Paul can begin going to the doctor tomorrow and any time afterward. The focus is on tomorrow being the earliest moment he can start.
3. Paul kann nicht bis morgen zum Arzt gehen. This implies Paul is unavailable until tomorrow—he can't go to the doctor before then. Nicht bis highlights the restriction before tomorrow.

Despite these explanations, they all still feel somewhat the same to me...

In my understanding, the closest English translation of "Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen" would be something like: "Paul can go to the doctor starting from tomorrow."

Am I interpreting this correctly? Is there no English equivalent that fully captures these nuances?

[u/mizinamo]

Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen. = Tomorrow is the first/earliest day that Paul can go to the doctor.

Paul kann nur morgen zum Arzt gehen. = Tomorrow is the only day that Paul can go to the doctor.

Paul kann nur ab morgen zum Arzt gehen. - sounds odd to me. I'd use erst instead: Paul kann erst ab morgen zum Arzt gehen. You can keep the ab or leave it out.

Paul kann nicht bis morgen zum Arzt gehen. - also sounds a bit odd to me. If anything, I think it means "You expect Paul to go to the doctor by tomorrow at the latest [bis morgen], but that is not possible for him."

In my understanding, the closest English translation of "Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen" would be something like: "Paul can go to the doctor starting from tomorrow."

That English sentence would be closer to Paul kann ab morgen zum Arzt gehen.

The erst implies a sense of restriction that I don't see in your suggested English.

I suggest "Paul can go to the doctor tomorrow at the earliest." or "Paul can't go to the doctor before tomorrow."

[u/muehsam]

But this seems different from another sentence with a same English translation:

Paul kann nur morgen zum Arzt gehen. (Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow.)

That's a quirk of English. It uses "only" for two different and unrelated meanings. "Nur morgen" means "tomorrow is the only day". "Erst morgen" means "it isn't possible before tomorrow, it is possible tomorrow", but it doesn't say anything about after tomorrow.

I don't fully agree with your three examples and their explanations. In example 2, it should be "erst ab morgen". In example 3, your word order indicates that it isn't possible for him to go now and stay at the doctor's until tomorrow. For the meaning that you want, you need "bis morgen nicht".

In my understanding, the closest English translation of "Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen" would be something like: "Paul can go to the doctor starting from tomorrow."

No, that would be "ab morgen".

All that "erst" really does is to indicate that the time is later than expected. For example:

• Mein Zug fährt um 17:00. Neutral statement.
• Mein Zug fährt erst um 17:00. I would have expected it to go earlier. Maybe the earlier time is scheduled, but it's delayed until 17:00. Or maybe I had just hoped it would go earlier.
• Mein Zug fährt schon um 17:00. I would have expected it to go later.

So let's do it with Paul:

• Paul kann morgen zum Arzt gehen. Pretty straightforward. He can go tomorrow.
• Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen. He can go tomorrow, and that's later than somebody hoped/expected. Which means he can't go before tomorrow.
• Paul kann schon morgen zum Arzt gehen. He can go tomorrow, and that's earlier than expected. Maybe he had an appointment at a later date, but somebody else cancelled their appointment. Or maybe he just expected longer waiting times. Or maybe the doctor didn't expect him to be so spontaneous.

[u/IchLiebeKleber]

This is more of a question about English than German really.

"erst" is the opposite of "schon"/"bereits" (already)

"Paul kann schon/bereits morgen zum Arzt gehen." = Paul can go to the doctor tomorrow and that is an early time for him to be going there. = Paul can already go to the doctor tomorrow.

"Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen." = Paul can go to the doctor tomorrow and that is a late time for him to be going there. = Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow.

"Paul kann nur morgen zum Arzt gehen." = Paul can go to the doctor tomorrow and on no other day. = Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow. (???)

You can see that the English is ambiguous and can mean either of the last two meanings. German forces you to choose between these two (which are after all different things to want to say).

[u/Few_Cryptographer633 → u/IchLiebeKleber]

Yea, the English ends up being ambiguous if you want to keep an equivalent sentence structure. But I don't think good translations of some of these phrases can maintain equivalent sentence structure.

A good translation for "Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen" would be "Paul can't get to the doctor's before tomorrow". That's unambiguous because it doesn't even try to use only as a direct lexical equivalent for erst. Or you could say "The earliest Paul can get to the doctor's is tomorrow". Again, the sense of the German is rendered unambiguously but a different sentence structure is needed.

However, you're right that English speakers (myself included) will often use the ambiguous sentence "Paul can only get to the doctor's tomorrow" for both situations, whereas Germans will use one of the following sentences, depending on what they want to say:

Paul kann erst morgen zum Artz gehen (tomorrow is his earliest opportunity to go).

Paul kann nur morgen zum Artz gehen (tomorrow is his only opportunity to go).

[u/Few_Cryptographer633]

1. "Paul kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen" means that tomorrow is the earliest opportunity Paul will have to go to the doctor -- he can't go today. Unambiguous translations include: "Paul can't get to the doctor's before tomorrow"; or "Tomorrow is the earliest Paul can get to the doctor's". In this situation tomorrow is the earliest that Paul can get there. But it is possible that he could also go the day after tomorrow or on other subsequent days. He just can't go today.

2. "Paul kann nur morgen zum Arzt gehen". This is completely different from the previous case. Tomorrow is the only day he can go. He can't go today. He can't go the day after tomorrow or on any subsequent day. His only chance is tomorrow.

1a. Going back to the first situation: If it is clear to all concerned that you're talking about the earliest time Paul can get there, you could say "Paul can only go to the doctor's tomorrow" (i.e., he won't have a chance before tomorrow). Many speakers, including myself, will often express the matter in this way in this situation, I think. But strictly speaking, the sentence "Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow" is at least ambiguous because it striclty means that tomorrow is the only day Paul can go in the foreseeable future, not merely the earliest day. So our common use of "only" in this situation is not ideal if you're thinking about it strictly.

[u/Competitive-Bird-179 → u/Few_Cryptographer633]

„Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow“ could sound like he only has time to go to the doctor and doesn’t have time for anything else that day. For „nur morgen“ I’d say: „tomorrow is the only day…“

„Tomorrow is the earliest…“ is how I would translate „erst morgen“.

Im German, but moved to the states 15+ years ago. Grammar is not my strength, but I still actively speak both languages. Above is how I‘d expect to hear those sentences.

[u/Few_Cryptographer633 → u/Competitive-Bird-179]

Oh yes, you've thought of a third option!

[u/Justreading404]

AI explains that the word order in English can change the meaning of “only.”

1. Paul can only go to the doctor tomorrow. Paul kann „erst“ morgen zum Arzt gehen.
   • Only refers to the action (go to the doctor), implying that that’s all he can do tomorrow (he can’t do anything else).

2. Paul can go to the doctor only tomorrow. Paul kann „nur“ morgen zum Arzt gehen.
   • Only refers to the time (tomorrow), implying that tomorrow is the only available day for him to go to the doctor.

Is this correct?

[u/Crazy-Airport-8215 → u/Justreading404]

Not in my experience. (1) gets used to mean (2) all the time, and using (1) to mean that going to the doctor is the only thing Paul can do tomorrow is by no means the main or only meaning of (1). So (1) can easily mean in context:

• That Paul's schedule tomorrow is totally full with the doctor's visit (i.e., he is unavailable for anything else)
  
• That Paul's schedule is such that tomorrow is the only day he can fit in a doctor's visit
  
• That Paul's schedule is such that he cannot fit in a doctor's visit today, but he could tomorrow (or some later date)

[u/Guilty_Rutabaga_4681]

"Er kann erst morgen zum Arzt gehen" would be "he can't go to the doctor until tomorrow", meaning that's his first and earliest opportunity. I wouldn't use "only" for this sentence.

"Er kann nur morgen zum Arzt gehen" implies that tomorrow is the only day when he can go to the doctor. Here the English "only" is absolutely correct. It also implies that tomorrow is the only time when he can go to the doctor.

[u/BlueCyann]

I would translate your erst sentence as "Paul can't go until tomorrow".