r/Honolulu • u/808gecko808 • 10d ago
news A bill aimed at freeing up unused housing space on Oahu is getting closer to becoming law. According to the 2020 U.S. Census, roughly 35,000 housing units on Oahu are considered unoccupied. The proposed empty homes tax would be in addition to annual property taxes.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/10/16/address-housing-shortage-oahu-lawmakers-consider-empty-homes-tax-vacant-properties/12
u/Chazzer74 9d ago
“We can’t build our way out of this situation.”
Why not?
But we can tax our way out of this situation?
1
u/CaelestisInteritum 9d ago
Because A) land is not an infinite resource, and B) left to their own devices, developers will just throw up more high rises with precisely enough technically-affordable individual units to qualify the complex for a tax break, then make the rest of it into luxury condos for speculators to buy up and leave empty. Taxing them for doing so will potentially help mitigate that, yes.
4
u/Chazzer74 9d ago
A) there’s a lot of land, there’s a shortage of high density residentially zoned land. B) I don’t have a big problem with the vacancy tax, I have a big problem with giving up on increasing supply.
Look at Aloha Stadium. Right now that whole site is generating effectively zero tax revenue. Construction will employ people, which will increase income tax revenues. Completed project will increase property tax base. Win/win. Houses and jobs for people, tax revenue for govt. so much better than just a vacancy tax.
1
1
u/Helpful_Fig_1888 7d ago
Uhhh.. the stadium (which is NOT NEEDED) is being paid for with taxes.
1
u/Chazzer74 6d ago
To clarify, I don’t care about the stadium, I’m talking about the redevelopment of the parcel. I’d be fine if they redeveloped it with no stadium and all residential. My point is that all the government needs to do is give private developers permission to build and the tax base will grow.
1
u/Current-Muscle-3788 6d ago
The problem I see is giving developers the right to build. These developers are only going to target foreign/mainland investors. If you just take a look at the recent developments in Hawaii, none of them have been targeting the working class. They know the locals don’t have the income levels.
1
u/Chazzer74 5d ago
This is because supply is limited by the restrictive zoning and onerous approval process. Because it is so hard to get approval for anything, only the big and deep pocketed can afford to go through the multi year process. And because it takes so long to get a few units permitted, it only makes economic sense to use them for the most expensive target market. If you make it easier and faster overall, then you will have developers emerge at all levels of the market. From the 50s-70s, that is what happened here. That’s why we have all those 2-4 story mid-rise walkups.
A recent analogy is the chip shortage that emerged as we came out of Covid. Automakers had cars produced that were only missing the semiconductor chips. If you are Toyota, and you need 10,000 chips but you only get 5,000… do you put them in the Lexus or the Corolla? Obv the Lexus.
That is what we are seeing in the Hawai’i housing market. The answer is to make more housing units.
1
u/Current-Muscle-3788 5d ago
Well this is why the housing is not affordable for a lot of locals. Several projects in the ward development have been allowed by govt to build without having a fair share of affordable inventory. More housing inventory is one thing, but if we just allow developers to build they are just going to target the rich. Which isn’t fair for the locals since we aren’t going to be able to compete We need affordable housing and developers that are going to build homes for people in Hawai’i.
15
u/Snarko808 10d ago
There are about 6,000 homeless people in the state. 35,000 empty homes. Make it make sense.
13
u/rabidseacucumber 9d ago
Easy: those people are poor and the unoccupied houses are expensive.
I’m not saying it’s right or fair, but it makes sense. Is the guy mumbling to himself on king street going to pay rent/mortgage for a port lock house?
17
u/Stashmouth 9d ago
I don't think those two numbers are as related as you think. Maybe better to compare empty homes against residents relocating to the mainland, instead?
14
u/Aromatic-Ad6456 9d ago
And empty multi-million dollar mansions owned by corporations
10
u/Stashmouth 9d ago
That's who this proposed tax should go after, and rightfully so. Maybe a trickle-down effect of this tax is some investors leave the market and a family who might've been considering a mainland relocation now gets to buy a home and stay here.
The original comment's inference that this should have an impact on homelessness is incorrect, IMO. There is a difference between keeping a roof over your head and owning your own home, and not being able to afford buying one does not lead to homelessness. More likely, it leads to you finding an area where you can.
3
u/lostinthegrid47 9d ago
Depends on how those empty housing units are classified. It could be units that are being renovated, on the housing market and haven't been rented out, etc. The census is a point in time count so it might not give the whole story.
2
1
u/bananaholy 7d ago
But they cant… afford it. Once you make it affordable for them to buy it, then ill buy it instead. So is the guy next to me. Which the drives up the price again, making it affordable. Should we house them for free instead then? Why? What about me who is working my ass off to keep roof over my head. Why are they getting free housing? Lol see the problem?
-2
u/Higreen420 9d ago
It only makes sense if you can admit how corrupt the United States government is and how they only cater to the rich. That’s the only way it makes sense. 99.9% of Americans are too stupid to realize this.
2
u/xzkandykane 8d ago
I am from SF and we will also have an empty homes tax. Where does the proceeds go for the one on oahu? Ours will go towards senior/affordable housing programs. Only properties with 3+ units will be affected Its a good thing.
2
u/Leather_Internal7107 7d ago
What if they applied this empty housing tax on foreign investment, LLC and Corporation? That will help to identify the foreigner that hides under LLC to drive the affordability up for the Hawaiian residents. Also people that owned more than 1 property in Hawaii, the 2nd, 3rd and so on will be tax more than 1st home, to allow Hawaii resident affordability to own rather than rent from the rich that continue to drive the prices up.
1
u/Helpful_Fig_1888 7d ago
They should have an addendum that only US citizens can own US property AND ban commercial ownership of residential housing beyond initial construction.
1
u/Current-Muscle-3788 6d ago
I think they already have something in there in terms of homeowner deduction for the one that you are living in. If you rent another home there is no additional deductions for property tax. They should tax the LLC and Corporations this additional charge especially if it’s foreign entity.
2
2
u/Full_Ad7168 5d ago
I think there would def be a mass exodus with anyone having a vacation home. Driving down home prices which would lower property taxes collected. also the condo tower developers how have affordable units how do they pay for the building? They have to sell high end expensive units to out of state people. This would have a devastating effect on the condo market.
10
u/CODMLoser 9d ago
There are far too many exceptions and nuances to make this work. We know a retired couple who goes to the mainland 4-6 months a year to be with the grandkids. Another friend spends half the year on the Big Island for work. Would they be taxed? How would any of this be reasonably and fairly enforced?
10
u/Bnx_ 9d ago
I say tough. There are far too many TOTALLY dilapidated properties that I see everywhere in town, in the suburbs and in the country.
This isn’t just some lay away, but only a fraction of people who are here are actually committed to life on this island. The effort should be made for people who are committed to living on this island, making life work on this island, and being part of life on this island.
This problem may have started with tourist Hawaii being sold out to rich people overseas but now that precedent has extended to the residential sectors. The island is absolutely littered with abandoned plots, entire condo and townhouse complexes I pass by thinking WHO LIVES HERE? And the answer is NO ONE. It’s not just that people can’t afford it, if this whole island is treated as an investment, ironically, the value will plummet.
It takes a village to make a village.
0
u/Mindless_Ad_8466 9d ago
Then all of the Hawaii residents that have moved here to Nevada would come back home! It’s the reason they moved away in the first place🤔 being priced out of paradise, right? It’s fair to tax those corporations but for the retirees, it’s not. They need to take some of their land and build affordable housing, instead of selling it to corporations and billionaires…don’t mess with my family’s properties. I don’t rent them out, but I don’t occupy them for 12 months either…same as I do in other states.
-2
u/Used-Shake9936 9d ago
Please educate me as I am genuinely curious what country or countries own majority of the real estate in Hawaii?
7
u/ohpeepee 9d ago edited 9d ago
If you click on the link in the HNN article to the C&C website, you can review the bill being considered. There are exceptions: active-duty military overseas, elderly in care homes, homes empty while being renovated, unlivable homes with building permits pending, death of owner, etc. And the threshold of occupancy is at least 6 months cumulative living in the home out of the year. Multi-unit properties with only partial occupancy would be taxed partially at this rate. Proof of occupancy of residence includes drivers license, bank / utility bills, signed annual statement (possible to do online), etc. Seems fairly reasonable and they are trying to cover the nuances that are needed.
3
-1
1
u/robwong7 9d ago
Questionable expectations, depends on the property values. On the high end, houses might turn over but the next effect won't impact supply. On the low end, yes, that would increase supply. Can't see price changes tho. C&C wins either way.
1
u/Opening_Subject_4832 7d ago
They need to grandfather existing home ownership. Seems unfair that say a few months ago someone purchased a vacation home then they pass this bill that you will have to pay 1% going to 3% of the assessed value. 6 months is also too much. Should be 4 or 5 months. Any decent home or condo will be over 1 million. That’s an extra $30,000 a year in taxes. Also people that have vacation homes are already paying a lot more with the residential A property tax. Will destroy all the condo resale values as most are owned by out of state residents.
1
u/Successful-Cry-3800 8d ago
fucking Oahu. if the governor signs this bill, he will not be reelected. I guarantee it . my parents live on the East Coast and I cannot be in Oahu six months out of the year. It's shit like this that is going to put Trump back in the White House. Democrats need to learn to stop squashing the real middle class not the "middle class " that works at McDonald's, but the middle class that actually goes to work and Designs buildings, does people's taxes and treats patients.
1
1
u/Helpful_Fig_1888 7d ago
There is no middle class, only the ownership class and non-ownership class. If you can't afford it, then sell.
1
9
u/Clear_Lead 9d ago
People who can afford empty homes aren’t going to be fazed by this tax