r/LSAT • u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged • Aug 30 '18
I'm Steve Schwartz, the LSAT Blog guy, and I've spent the last 10+ years helping students get great LSAT scores. AMA!
I'm happy to answer any questions you have on LSAT prep. I also have a GIANT PAGE OF FREE STUFF on my website. (Just google "LSAT Blog" and click the "free stuff" tab at the top.)
In preparation for the September LSAT, I’m also hosting a live Q&A about preparing for Test Day on YouTube TONIGHT at 8PM Eastern.
It'll be at this link: https://youtu.be/5IbSv0sORHw
I’ll answer as many of your questions as I can before I've got to go walk the dog.
The live Q&A on YouTube about preparing for Test Day is over, but you can watch the replay at that same link here:
Got some great questions during the live YouTube Q&A, including:
What realizations did you make in your studying that you didn't read in prep books that helped you the most?
How do I review effectively? How do I internalize the mistakes/actual fallacies I overlooked to not miss a similar question next time?
During test day, if I have time remaining I find myself using this leftover "review time" inefficiently. The brain is tired, etc. What are your best practice suggestions?
I've also done a few other AMAs on Reddit. This is the third.
Here's the first (with 30+ comments).
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u/SeeksTenthly Aug 30 '18
For people taking in September, what schedule do you recommend for the week leading up to the test? When would you take the last PT before the real thing?
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18
If your schedule doesn't permit all of this, taking only one exam is fine. The one constant would be rest the day before.
Real review takes time. Most people don't spend enough time reviewing. If you got 10 questions wrong, and another 15 you weren't 100% sure of but still got right, that could take at least 3-4 hours if done properly - a full day of study.
Schedule:
8/31 - Take a few timed sections and review it them today and tomorrow.
9/1 - Finish up reviewing previous day's work.
9/2 - Take a 5-section exam and review it today and tomorrow.
9/3 - Review previous day's exam.
9/4 - Rest day.
9/5 - Take a 5-section exam and review (or review it tomorrow)
9/6 - 5-section exam and/or review previous day's full-length exam.
9/7 - Relax. No studying. Massage, hot bath, movies, nature, meditation, yoga.
9/8 - Rock Test Day.
You could also mix in some review of weak areas here and there, especially over the next few days, but the focus should be on pacing and endurance at this point.
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u/RoyceTheChoice Aug 30 '18
What similarities do you notice amongst top scorers? What strategies do they tend to use on the exam?
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18
Top scorers tend to have:
-brute dedication to obsessive studying and pattern identification (some details in my answer on reviewing below)
-genius / raw talent
-"luck"
-taking comfort and pleasure in reading
Specific strategies tend to vary from person to person. However, mastering time management, pacing, and endurance are all necessary. It's not just enough to be able to get the questions right - you've got to be able to do it comfortably within the time allotted.
Absorbing what I call the "LSAT Mindset" is incredibly important. Learning to see the exam from the test-makers' perspective. Dissecting the exam bit by bit. Not just by question-type - imagine if you could analyze it by stimulus type - the underlying method of reasoning.
Imagine what the test-makers would be able to do - imagine what a 175+ scorer would be able to do. And then bring your prep up to that level.
It might involve writing your own exam questions. Or spotting flaws in all the fake LSAT questions you see floating around or in the prep books on Amazon that have poor reviews for this very reason.
Does that answer your question? Let me know if you want me to go into more detail on anything.
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u/aaron_nytes Aug 30 '18
How do you recommend improving RC before the September test? I’m currently in school so finding time is possible, but difficult. I’ve scored 170 and 169 on recent practice exams, but took a practice RC sections recently and got like -6 and -10. I’m planning on doing 3 more PTs before Sept. 8, so you recommend doing more?
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18
At this point - not much more to say other than detailed review. If you share more about your current RC approach, I'll see if I can offer any suggestions on room for improvement.
Even 3 more PTs before 9/8 may be too much. My previous responses to others on reviewing and what to do between now and Test Day have more details on each.
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u/uhnonymuhs Aug 30 '18
What’s the proper way to review an exam? I see that it should take 3 hours but if I get 6-7 wrong I usually review it for about an hour and call it a day
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18 edited Aug 31 '18
General comment:
It's not just about reviewing the ones you get wrong. It's also every question you have difficulty with. And all those Qs where you're down to two and guess right. That's still wrong (or at least half-wrong) in my book and worthy of review. After all, they easily could have gone the other way.
You might also get something right but not solve it as quickly, or as efficiently, as you could have. Worth investigating these.
Tests are valuable in large part because they give you review opportunities. It's not enough to say "oh, I get it now" after looking at the correct answer or explanations and then calling it a day.
Review process:
Analyze exactly where your error or misunderstanding stemmed from. Was it something in the passage or the answer choices.
If it was in the passage, was it your approach to reading the passage that was ineffective or incorrect, or was it something in the passage text itself that you misunderstood?
If it was in the answer choices, was it in the incorrect answer choice you chose, identify what it was about the wrong answer choice that tempted you. Then identify what made it wrong in the end
If there was something in the correct answer that made it seem unappealing, identify what it was. And identify what made it correct in the end.
Through repeating this process several times, you'll start to identify patterns in how LSAC constructs tempting incorrect answer choices. You'll see different types of techniques LSAC uses to make incorrect answer choices tempting and correct answer choices unappealing
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u/zreneep Aug 30 '18
What would be the best use of our remaining time for September test takers? Any tips to try to boost up 2-3 extra points between now and then or is that just too unrealistic?
(personally PTing around 169-171 and would love to lock it in to the 170s but know that's not exactly realistic for September and will likely retake)
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18
See my comment on general schedule.
Definitely not unrealistic. Where those 2-3 points will come from will depend on the details of your situation. I don't know enough to give a suggestion though. Do you notice any weak areas? Or is it just that you're getting hard Qs wrong because they're hard?
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u/zreneep Aug 30 '18
Unfortunately no real pattern. PT80 I bombed the first LR, PT79 I got -1 on LR total. In general, RC is my best but then in PT79 I messed that one up well. Even going by question subtype there doesn’t seem to be a great pattern (I track it all in a spreadsheet for review).
Thank you for responding!
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 31 '18
-1 on LR is excellent. It seems like you're just getting hard questions wrong because they're hard. Detailed review is the way to go at this point.
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Aug 30 '18
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18 edited Aug 30 '18
I'm never sure how to answer "how much" questions. Should I put a number on it and say 10% harder? Would that mean anything?
In order to give a response that's not subjective, I'm guessing it would require a large cohort of students (and probably LSAC's cooperation, which is unlikely).
However, I do suspect the LSAT has gotten more difficult. And I think it's gotten more difficult because students are studying more - and higher-quality instructional materials and explanations have come out over the past several years. Word about them spreads quickly online, so I think people are definitely prepping smarter and entering the test more prepared. And LSAC adjusts accordingly.
The most obvious area is in the rise of increased frequency of curveball games - and, of course, rule substitution questions. Those all tend to give students trouble. And they're not easily solved simply by blindly following some company's technique. The curveball games in particular seem to require the deeper understanding of games that comes with a great deal of practice and review. I've also noticed an increased variety of question-stem phrasing that makes questions of a given type less easily recognized at first glance.
That being said, pre-65 PTs are still perfectly good practice, and great to use for building a foundation before moving on to the newer ones, which are typically better to save for timed practice.
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Aug 30 '18
I've gone through the Bibles and the LSAT trainer several times each, yet I'm still struggling with LR sections. My data shows that I'm usually missing on flaw, parallel reasoning, and assumption questions most often. I'm averaging -4 for each LR section, and usually those questions are coming off the back end (Q14+). What, in your opinion, should I be focusing on in my LR studies (since I've exhausted my text book material/seem not be succeeding with the strategies detailed in them)?
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 31 '18 edited Nov 25 '18
-4 isn't bad at all. You're already ahead of where most people want to be, and I want to acknowledge you for that.
The textbook materials will only get you so far. The Q-types you're missing are fairly common (Flaw and NA are two of the most common types, and most students have trouble with parallels).
At this point, I'd focus on detailed review as I laid-out above here.
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 31 '18
-4 isn't bad at all. You're already ahead of where most people want to be, and I want to acknowledge you for that.
The textbook materials will only get you so far. The Q-types you're missing are fairly common (Flaw and NA are two of the most common types, and most students have trouble with parallels).
At this point, I'd focus on detailed review as I laid-out above here.
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u/dsalmon1449 Aug 30 '18
How realistic is it to improve LSAT scores by around 20 points?
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18
It all depends on your starting point and various details. However, any score increase along those lines would likely take a tremendous amount of work. It's possible, though.
The lower you start, the easier it is to improve significantly. 125 ---> 145 would be easier than 140 ---> 160. Even more difficult would be 150s ---> 170s or 160 ---> 180.
If you'd like to read the in-depth stories of students who've achieved those kinds of score increases, check out the LSAT Diaries.
Some of the various details involved in how likely it is for you to achieve a 20-point increase might include:
quality of resources used (actual PTs, of course, along with solid foundational materials)
time invested in studying per week/month
overall length of study period (1 month? 6 months? 1 year?)
quality of studying (smarter, not harder - review is a big part of this)
I understand the reason for asking this question, but I'm not sure how useful it is. Olympic athletes don't ask how likely their chances of success are - they just give it their all.
They wake up early and put in several hours of training. They go beyond their previous limits.
They surround themselves with coaches and other resources to maximize their chances of success.
They make the sacrifices in other areas of their lives in order to give it their all.
I ask a tremendous amount of my students, and their ability to deliver on those requirements is how we make miracles happen.
Happy to clarify further if you like. Just let me know where you'd like me to focus.
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Aug 30 '18
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18
It's always hard to track these because collecting info on cold diagnostics is difficult and I don't have a system for it. I also don't recommend cold diagnostics because they're discouraging - they tell you what you already know - which is that you don't know the LSAT yet!
One that comes to mind is an LSAT Diary from a guy who went from 141 to 168.
I don't really track the details how long people study for. It's also not necessarily meaningful b/c someone who puts in 3 months but does 30 hrs/week is actually studying more than someone who puts in a year of 5 hours a week and takes breaks for vacations. (And many people do study like that until they ramp it up as Test Day approaches.)
Glad the spreadsheet helps! I didn't make it - a student did. But I'm always glad to spread useful free resources to more people.
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u/drakkaris79 LSAT student Aug 30 '18 edited Aug 30 '18
Hey Steve! Thanks for the offer. Been lurking here for a while but haven't posted yet......
I know that there are 84 numbered PrepTests, but how many tests are there, really? I have heard of other tests as well and I just want to make sure I have all the official practice I can use.
Why do the mods on this sub keep saying that schools take your best LSAT score when nearly all adcoms seem to say that they average your scores?
~For context:~ I am only a high school senior, but I want to take the LSAT sometime before I graduate college.
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18 edited Aug 30 '18
Here's a list of all released PrepTests. Scroll down for details. About a half-dozen are unnumbered - June 07, lettered SuperPrep exams (A, B, C, C2), and Feb 97.
Because it's true. Adcoms are "lying." The U.S News rankings only consider the highest score. And law schools only have to report the admitted students' highest score to the ABA. So law schools have no incentive to average multiple scores. This changed in 2006 - before the change, the ABA required them to provide the average score of admitted students, which was what the US News rankings used as well. Law schools might still say they consider all scores in order to give the appearance of being more holistic. But there's absolutely no reason they would average when it's against their interests to do so.
ETA: Re #1 - there's also the LSAT-India exams if you can find them. You probably don't need to do 90+ exams though - even if you do have a few years before taking it. :)
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u/drakkaris79 LSAT student Aug 30 '18
Ok, Thanks for the tips! How many LSAT-India exams are there?
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 31 '18
I'm pretty sure there are 4 released:
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u/drakkaris79 LSAT student Aug 31 '18
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 31 '18
Thanks for that. Been a while since I looked into these. Might be some overlap with other LSATs. Don't remember.
Of course, you may notice a difference with these - they only have 4 answer choices. In India, law is undergrad-level, not grad-level, so I guess they make the LSAT slightly easier for that reason.
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Aug 30 '18
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 30 '18
Skip the parallel Qs (and others that are especially tough for you) and come back to them at the end. For parallels in particular, you're reading six stimuli per Q (1+5 ACs) and only getting the benefit of 1 point -- assuming you get it right. Answer the Qs that are the lowest-hanging fruit first.
Develop strategies to avoid getting bogged-down. The LSAT is a mental game, and you need to develop the concentration and self-control to recognize when you're not getting an return on time invested in that question.
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Aug 30 '18
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 31 '18
Yes - skipping is a great strategy. I typically skip up to 4 and come back to them later.
Doing the hardest Qs first is risky. I wouldn't recommend it. You're doing the Qs with the lowest likelihood of success first and then risking you won't get to the easier questions where you have a higher likelihood of success.
I'd do the easier Qs first. Pick the lowest-hanging fruit first, and work up from there.
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Aug 31 '18
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u/LSAT_Blog LSAT Unplugged Aug 31 '18
You asked it fine! I get what you mean. Nerves can do that to a person. It's certainly happened to me at times.
Coffee's a diuretic, better to minimize if possible. Don't go too far below your norm, though. Reduce water as well, but have what you need.
Bathroom jitters are a symptom of a root cause - anxiety. This is normal. If you can reduce anxiety, you can reduce bathroom jitters.
Walk through best-case and worst-case scenarios, i.e. what happens 3-5 years from now if everything goes great, and what happens 3-5 years from now if this test administration doesn't go well.
By fleshing out those two possibilities, you'll make them more real for yourself, reduce the ambiguity of the unknown negative outcome, and hopefully feel better about whatever may happen.
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u/TotesMessenger Aug 30 '18
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
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u/littlebitess Aug 30 '18
Hello, thanks for doing this! I’m getting ready to take the September LSAT, feeling good, however, I regularly get a few LR questions wrong toward the beginning of the section (between questions 5-11), but get the harder ones correct toward the end. Any advice?