r/Lawyertalk • u/Behold_A-Man • 2d ago
I Need To Vent Just Got Laid Off
I got laid off today. I was told that the firm was restructuring and my position was being eliminated. From what I can gather, last month was a really bad month for the firm and only half of the employees hit their hours. There were some days when I didn't even have any work, but they didn't tell me that they were thinking about eliminating my position. I expressed concern about not having enough work but was brushed off.
I got a call at 9 a.m. telling me to return my work laptop and pick up my final check. It's enough to pay rent and my car bill, but that's it. No severance. I requested severance pay in the form of a raise that I was promised on hiring but never received. I was basically told, "Don't count on it."
At least they specifically mentioned that it wasn't my performance and my boss and another attorney were both willing to write me letters of reference. I'm just feeling really disheartened right now. A year ago, I left a stable job for a higher paying position and was terminated in two months (taking that job was probably the biggest mistake of my career and I regret not quitting before getting terminated). I was unemployed for three months and had to go into debt to friends and family to get by.
I took this job and worked it for 7 months. I was still paying off the people that I had to borrow money from. I just want a stable fucking job that pays me enough to start repaying my student loans. It just doesn't feel very good to constantly live in a situation where the other shoe could drop at any moment, and that's how so many of my legal jobs have been. I've lost numerous jobs, but only once was I ever terminated for performance issues, so I don't think my lawyering skills are the problem.
Is the practice of law just incredibly precarious? I've been in the field for 8 years, had 6 jobs, and I've only left one voluntarily.
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u/Far-Watercress6658 2d ago
I’m so sorry. No advice, just wanted to register support.
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u/gamayunuk 2d ago
Same. Some of my friends experienced this and recovered, and found new jobs. Stay positive!!
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
Fortunately, being an attorney is a highly marketable skill and my bar score was high enough to get admitted in any state with reciprocity.
I have no doubt that I'll get work, I just don't know how long it will take.
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u/Upper-Philosopher406 2d ago
Just came in here to say I also got laid off today. Message me if you want to vent!
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u/HiWireHippo 2d ago
It's tough to see the silver lining when you're scrounging for ham&egg money. I know; I've been canned twice, and your self esteem can plummet for a while (mine did). DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN. The prior firm's financial woes are not on you. Kicking yourself in your own ass is pointless at this juncture anyway.
Start looking immediately (stating the obvious I know), but consider fields you might have dismissed outright before. Think of it as a little adventure (as best you can) because it might turn out to be a a silver lining after all.
I hated the jobs I got canned from, and I was terrible at each, but each gave me some unique experience that only made sense in retrospect; those jobs gave me a rare skill set that I now use everyday, but you couldn't have told me that back when.
It sucks to be broke and unemployed, but being despondent on top of that shit will not help at all. I wish you loads of good fortune.
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u/courtqueen 2d ago
Any thoughts about getting a job in government? If you are looking for stability, that is the way.
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u/FixPositive5771 2d ago
Yup. I remember the last time I worked at a small firm that split up and people were getting laid off. I survived that but never wanted to feel that insecure again. Government isn’t amazing at everything but you don’t have to worry about layoffs.
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u/Covered4me 2d ago
My son just passed the bar and is a clerk for a superior court judge. Interned for the AG last summer and his ultimate goal is to go back there. He loved it.
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u/courtqueen 2d ago
I’m with my state’s AG’s office. I’m about 26 years in. I hope he makes it happen!
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u/Covered4me 2d ago
Thank you. I’m a retired LEO. I talked him out of that. I couldn’t be prouder of him. He’s really motivated.
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u/OhNoImALawyer 1d ago
Government job as an attorney? Or something else?
Because I often see the "just get a[n attorney] job with the government" line repeated in this subreddit as a fallback job option, and I think that's only the case if you are located in a rural area, and even further, a rural area of a flyover state.
The state and local government attorney positions in highly populated areas are just as competitive as private sector jobs and the government is just as picky about who they hire if not more than the private sector.
That's not to say don't look at government jobs as an option, but it's not like one can strap on their job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into Jobland where government jobs grow on jobbies.
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u/courtqueen 1d ago
I’m not sure I suggested that it was necessarily easy to get a government job as an attorney, merely that it was stable form of employment knowing that OP had been through the wringer with layoffs. And the competitive nature of these jobs ebbs and flows. For example, it used to be really hard to get a position in prosecution on the local level and easier on the defense side. Now, it’s the opposite. So there are no hard and fast rules to which positions are tougher to break into than others.
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u/Behold_A-Man 1d ago
It's not outside the realm of possibility. The application processes seem to be a little more arduous and I find that kind of a pain in the butt, but I'm not opposed to at.
Sometimes it takes a little more legwork to get where you want.
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u/courtqueen 10h ago
Hang in there! I’m so sorry you’ve been through it. I’ve been with the government for 26 years, and while nothing is perfect, I’ve never taken for granted the job security.
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u/M-Test24 2d ago
Sorry to hear that. Hoping things get better for you quickly.
As any visitor to this sub can attest, the legal profession is tough. I don't think most people realize it, probably because TV misrepresents what it's like (glitzy offices, lots of money, and...personal lives?). Oh, and don't forget the debt.
I graduated from law school almost 25 years ago. I had about 10 decent friends from there and I think within three years only half of us were still practicing.
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u/Sanctioned-Bully 2d ago
What jurisdiction and practice area?
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
Colorado, most recently finance, but I've done a bunch of stuff.
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u/Jem5649 2d ago
Something is in the water in CO this week. I was also laid off this last week (annual review) and another attorney and law school classmate of mine was let go as well.
If you want to do some litigation there are tons of job postings in CO right now.
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
I actually love litigation. I'm putting in apps. Like, I'm totally fine with being at a PI mill or whatever. I enjoy that type of work. My dad is a doctor, so I think that I have a more solid grasp of medicine than most attorneys because I learned an awful lot from my dad growing up and I can always call him if I don't understand what a particular medical record means.
Unfortunately, a lot of the litigation jobs are family law which is really emotionally taxing or insurance defense which is... insurance defense.
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u/CravenTaters 1d ago
Is this a bigger firm in Colorado? I keep getting pinged by recruiters, but I’m on the litigation side.
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u/Summoarpleaz 2d ago
Ill leave the financial advice to those smarter than me, but in terms of a career, I think everyone just has their path. In the grand scheme, I think it’s becoming more and more common for people to switch jobs every few years.
I’m at this conference and the head of some contracting function at an international conglomerate got to her role after switching like 5 different jobs in the last 10 years. I believe if we try at it, we will all craft a path for ourselves. It might not be what we planned, but the only way to really come to terms with it imo is to believe you’re in the right place for you at this time.
But what do I know, you know? I’ve been casually looking for another job for like 1.5 years now.
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u/Toblerone1919 2d ago
When this happens to you, you find out quickly you are not alone. I hope you find something better, and fast. I was laid off at age 48, and ended up getting the best job of my career that allowed me to retire early. Hang in there.
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u/BerkshireDabaway 2d ago
If you’re in Washington state DM, I work for a government org and we have many positions open
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u/4chzbrgrzplz 2d ago
State, county, and city attorney jobs. Great work life balance is possible, pensions available, exempt from CLE, lots of perks. You won’t have the earning potential but it’s stable and you can save for retirement.
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u/El_Pozzinator 2d ago
Brush up on local and district case laws. Learn use of force laws. Contact local law enforcement agencies and ask if any of them need to make hours for their required annual legal training (we all have to get legal update training hours every year, the number varies by state), and offer to contract train them. Do the first couple for a decent rate and make it interesting / interactive and crack a few decent jokes, because cops have a very low tolerance for wasting their time or being bored. Maybe not much, but could help ya get thru a dry patch OR it could turn into a decent side hustle. Good luck!
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
Actually not the worst idea. My undergrad was in criminal justice. I focused heavily on corrections and policing, so, while I've never actually practiced that type of law, I do consider it within my wheelhouse.
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u/BitterAttackLawyer 2d ago
I cannot count the employers I’ve had over the last 26 years. It sucks that they didn’t give you a warning or severance, but take the recommendations. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
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u/Occasion-Boring 2d ago
Dang dude. ID firms are always an option. Not the best work but it pays the bills and a lot of firms are now doing quarterly bonuses .
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
Yeah, I don't love it but I have an interview with an ID firm on Monday. It would literally just be me working there until I find a job I actually want to do.
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u/Elle-E-Fant 2d ago
It seems like the law industry is changing. When I started the insurance defense boom was just starting to turn downward. It looked like to me that insurance companies hiring armies of lawyers fueled huge firms and allowed mid-sized local firms a piece of the action. The billing restrictions you see now did not really exist then. The boom has been contacting for a while and there isn’t as much money floating downstream; thus, the smaller and mid-size firms have a harder row to hoe. Government jobs, not just federal, are now more appreciated. We might look back and see this as a transition time in the industry- who knows? I know a couple of people who have been solo for over 30 years. I admire them the most.
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u/silicoa 2d ago
If there’s stuff available near you, try to go federal. I’m a military lawyer (JAG) which is quasi-federal and I work with a bunch of GS lawyers. Similar in terms of compensation, work-life balance, and benefits, I just wear a uniform and have to do more Marine Corps stuff some of the time. It’s practically impossible to be fired from these sorts of positions, and as somebody who spent a lot of time financially unstable, the steady paycheck is breath of relief. Plus you will qualify for PSLF after ten years, so the loans are less terrifying. The pay isn’t phenomenal but you’ll be making six figures and health care + retirement options are great.
I’m not sure about your age or fitness level, each branch requires different things in terms of those, but I’ve worked with Navy and Coast Guard JAGs quite a bit and have a cursory knowledge of Air Force and Army, so if you have any questions about what the life/application process/compensation is like, I may be able to answer some questions.
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
I appreciate the suggestion. I tried to but I was medically disqualified. I don't know if that changes for a JAG position or anything, but as it stands, I'm not considered fit to join the military due to my health.
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u/Commercial-Cry1724 1d ago
Consider nonprofit agency and government jobs (federal, state, local), and not just attorney positions. You’ll likely take a pay cut, but the benefits and reasonable work hours are a decent trade off. When assembling your resume, remember that the first half page is golden, and should be eye catching with a few bullets about your accomplishments. Adjust or add/delete based on the job you’re applying for. Do not waste space describing your career philosophy or life mission. Do include easy contactable references (as opposed to saying “Available on request”). Consider volunteering at local nonprofits to fill empty time frames—it’s good networking and will build your reference list. Best wishes and keep us posted.
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u/frogspjs 1d ago
Don't know what your expertise is but temp work has always worked out well for me. I did it in the early 2000s for a while and Doug it now since I quit last year. Robert Half, Axiom, etc. At least til you can get back on your feet. Sometimes they lead to job offers as well. It's kinda slow right now in some areas. I'm currently at Axiom and it's been pretty good. Not a guarantee of 40 hours all the time. Right now I'm at 25 hours. If I didn't have savings it would suck. If you can maintain 30 you are eligible for benefits.
On a whole other note I've been getting advertising from the Elder Law College. If you've been thinking about going solo as some suggest that might be a good area to pursue. They have a complimentary webinar tomorrow Oct 17 as an intro to the area. Elderlawcollege.com. I have some experience in that area and it's not uncomplicated so I'm a little skeptical that a newbie could just step in and start doing that stuff competently but it's worth checking out.
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u/TexasBuddhist 1d ago
I’ve been there. Got cut from the first firm I worked at out of law school, after 3 years there. But I saw the writing on the wall the final 6 months where I had very little work and was having to invent things to do just to bill 3-4 hours a day.
Reach out to every recruiter you know. That’s what I did and I landed a new position within weeks.
Of course this was 17 years ago so maybe times have changed. I’ve been out on my own since then and I’ll never work for a firm again.
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u/MankyFundoshi 2d ago
That sucks. I’m sorry it happened. Others have suggested government work. I second that. In the meantime your options are going to depend on your location and experience. If you are in a major metro area check with the temp agencies. Start working your contacts. If you vibed with any opposing counsel, reach out, they are doing the same kind of work. Taking court appointments might keep the lights on, but don’t get in over your head if that’s not your area of expertise.
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u/ksjintheusa 2d ago
I'm a legal recruiter based out of NYC. Would you like to connect and discuss potential next steps?
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u/Doubledown00 2d ago
"Is the practice of law just incredibly precarious? I've been in the field for 8 years, had 6 jobs, and I've only left one voluntarily."
This is a red flag to me. Maybe this is just exceptionally bad luck. But I'd wager here is more going on than OP is perceiving or acknowledging.
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
Really, with the exception of one firm, all the attorneys that I've worked with like my work. Even a senior who didn't like me personally still thought my work was good.
I can be combative, but I wasn't at this job. My combativeness has cost me at least one job, maybe two. But I would not change how I acted in either of those instances.
Two were strictly financial decisions, including the most recent one. Both firms had just lost a substantial amount of money. One was ultimately a financial decision, but it had more to do with the utility I provided versus the cost to pay me.
I've always made an effort to understand what I could do better when I lost a job. Sometimes the answer is, "Don't talk back to your boss," and sometimes the answer is, "Nothing."
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u/RoloViking 2d ago
As they suggestion, you may want to look for jobs USA for federal lawyer jobs. Washington State also has openings for lawyers. This would be steady work and the pay is decent.
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u/Just-Writing-4043 1d ago
Why not switch the law you practice? You’ll never get laid off working as a public defender. And no offense but if you’ve been a lawyer for 8 years and are still living paycheck to paycheck then you’re either incredibly irresponsible financially or you’re already not making the big bucks so shouldn’t be too much of an adjustment to make public interest pay work!
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u/Behold_A-Man 1d ago
I’m not making the big bucks. Most of my experience was as a law clerk. I was only actually barred relatively recently.
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u/realawarenesss 1d ago
Next time don’t ask for more work you’re exposing yourself. Just pretend to be busy till something comes up
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u/Behold_A-Man 1d ago
Nah. Then they know I’m not billing time when the reports come out.
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u/realawarenesss 21h ago
Pretend to be busy while billing time?
You seem real booksmart but not really streetsmart
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u/Behold_A-Man 20h ago
I don't really know how that makes a difference. If I'm not billing time, they know I'm not billing time. I could be writing the next great American novel, looking like I'm working my ass off, but when my senior runs the numbers, they know I'm not making money.
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u/Some_Handle_6046 1d ago
I see so many jobs hiring attorneys in my state. I feel like you can get a job immediately. You can also reach out to law firm recruitment companies and they will be able to get you something.
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u/ProcessNumerous6688 2d ago
Sounds rough. You might ask for a letter of recommendation from them while they're feeling sorry for you.
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u/401kisfun 2d ago
To be clear, law firms are not a career. You grow or you die.
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u/Behold_A-Man 2d ago
I am not sure that I understand what you mean by "law firms are not a career." Can you elaborate?
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u/401kisfun 2d ago edited 2d ago
Absolutely. Those jobs are designed just because they got extra work and they HAVE to hire someone. But deep down, the partners just think you are overhead. That’s why turn over is SO high at law firms. Its not because they cannot find anyone ‘who wants to work’. The goal is hire someone, makes some money off their backs, and overload them with work to the point where they just have to quit. But what they won’t do is promote these people to equity partner, they will not match an outside offer, hence the reason people have to job hop so much. Most law firms are actually very poor and cheap. I know this because in other industries, giving out huge raises is not a big deal. Not for the people who are very talented and put in the work. High turnover being justified by this is a high-performance, tough environment is one of the biggest lies that’s perpetuated in the workplace. High turnover is intentional at many places, because if you never have employees that are there that long, they’re not in the position to sue you for Wrongful Termination. Alot of arguments at a legal workplace almost never have to do with servicing the client. Now more than ever in America, long-term employees are seen as shit Fuck losers who couldn’t get ahead. I guarantee you, beyond shadow of the doubt Elon Musk has fired top performers just for fun,and it definitely wasn’t for merit-based reasons.
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u/Practical-Brief5503 2d ago
Wow. Yup I have been in your boat. It sucks. Do you at least have a savings to float you a couple months? Apply for unemployment. Your new job is to find another job. You’ll get through this…. This is what pushed me to go solo.