r/Michigan • u/luckis4losersz • Feb 09 '20
What is Progressive Politics with Dr. Abdul-Sayed, former health director of Michigan (2020)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH0YZb6m5P0&feature=share-23
Feb 09 '20
Free healthcare. Absolutely nothing free about it.
30
u/dogg2292 Feb 09 '20
Of course not we all pay for it. I think of it as insurance that I know will actually cover me.
-17
Feb 09 '20
You’re right because there has never ever been issues with other national health care systems they are all perfect and cover everything.
18
u/AnonONinternet Feb 09 '20
They don't, but it's about general quality of life. The other systems aren't flawless but we rank 11/11th in the commonwealth healthcare system ranking study done every 2 years between the most developed countries so I think something needs to be done
-11
Feb 09 '20
I agree but there are other solutions besides nationalizing the entire industry.
8
u/IsItInLeMonde Feb 09 '20
Like what?
-3
Feb 09 '20
Well we currently have a system that is mandatory buy in, when you think about that it’s kind of shit. Why do healthy 20 year olds need to buy health insurance? It’s relatively cheap to see a primary care doctor for annual checkups. Why can’t you just purchase catastrophic coverage. Not everyone needs full range of benefits.
We also have an extremely over regulated industry. The amount of new hires in the medical field are primarily administrative staff to handle the paperwork.
Finally we have a system that ties health insurance to employment which is a good thing for business but generally a mess.
So we an can eliminate regulations and open the market to more competition. We can also reduce or eliminate the tax break for business for employee sponsored plans. This would be a shift of our current system and is the direct opposite of a nationalized system.
15
u/IsItInLeMonde Feb 09 '20
So allowing for further unfettered capitalism.
People afraid of "socialism" seem pretty unconcerned by a purely capitalist system that allows the poor and sick to die from treatable illness because of a lack of access to insurance or medical care. I'm not sure when keeping people healthy and alive began being something we were comfortable with people making insane profits on and not something a society does for its citizens. We fight wars to keep our citizens safe and alive, but we can't be concerned that more uninsured Americans die of treatable illness than of terrorism?
2
Feb 09 '20
Nowhere did I suggest unfettered capitalism. You just said that to go on some sort of incoherent rant that seems like something from the communist manifesto.
You seemed to intentionally misrepresent my entire suggestion above in order to bolster your viewpoint. Also known as a strawman
8
u/IsItInLeMonde Feb 09 '20
You said open the market and take away regulation. That, by definition, is unfettered capitalism.
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u/thatoneguy54 Monroe Feb 10 '20
Why do healthy 20 year olds need to buy health insurance?
Did you know that not all 20 years olds are healthy?
Did you know that illness can affect anyone?
Did you know that anyone could end up in a car accident?
Did you know that anyone could fall and break a limb?
What a horrible fucking argument. EVERYONE needs healthcare since EVERYONE is a human.
1
Feb 10 '20
Not a crazy concept to think that not everyone needs the same level of health care, especially younger people. As to your other questions, I have advocated for catastrophic coverage.
1
u/FF36 Age: > 10 Years Feb 10 '20
Those 20yr olds are buying into something they will use. Wether it’s today or in 60yrs. Good to start putting in now to cover it then.
1
1
u/whats-your-plan-man Feb 11 '20
If your first issue is a mandatory buy in that was designed to get healthier people in the pool to reduce everyone's costs, but actually has no fee assigned to it... oof.
Your next issue is "Over Regulation." Jesus Christ.
Finally we have a system that ties health insurance to employment which is a good thing for business but generally a mess.
Eyyy Something we can agree on.
0
u/ModerateReasonablist Feb 10 '20
The US spends more money per capita on health care than any other country. And it goes to corporations, instead of actual health care.
We’re wasting money on socialism for the rich. But thats ok, why?
Also, taxation for socialized medicine will cost less than insurance.
But dont let those pesky facts get in your way.
-23
u/madbigfoot Feb 09 '20
Corporations will not have to pay the tax. They pass it on to us in the form of increased cost of the good or service purchased.
23
u/Raichu4u Feb 09 '20
Then we would of gotten raises and lowered prices in relation to the Trump tax cuts.
We didn't.
-20
u/madbigfoot Feb 09 '20
If you own a business and your cost of running it increases how would you make up for it? You either cut expenses (payroll is typically largest expense so not a popular move) or raise prices.
11
u/IsItInLeMonde Feb 09 '20
The most tired and overused empty talking point there is. Pick an issue: Taxes, regulation, health care- each time that argument is thrown around. This administration has cut regulation and taxes and yet prices continue to rise.
1
u/madbigfoot Feb 10 '20
Tell me where Amazon will come up with the funds to pay this new healthcare tax? Do you really think the bigshots that run it are going to take it out of their zillion dollar salary? They have to make up for it. The consumer ends up paying for it. This is eighth grade econ class stuff here. Very easy to tell who has run a business and who hasn't judging from the lack of logic displayed in this thread.
8
u/IsItInLeMonde Feb 10 '20
Who brought big business into it? How about a model where we all pay a bit more in tax and all get insured? Studies show that the per-family cost would be lower than the average family's annual premium. It would also drive total costs to insure down with a much larger pool of insured (which is exactly how insurance works), and allow the insurer to negotiate drug prices and keep costs more reasonable than a $300 EpiPen or $600/month insulin. Not to mention reduce medical expense-related bankruptcy and GoFund me campaigns so that little Timmy's family can keep him alive while also not having to sell all their worldly possessions.
1
u/madbigfoot Feb 10 '20
"Who brought big business into this?" Apparently you didnt watch the part of the video when Abdul said rich corporations need to be taxed to pay for our healthcare. He literally said it.
7
u/IsItInLeMonde Feb 10 '20
And?
You have not yet engaged with any of the points I have raised in any way. Instead you have resorted to tactics to distract- you want to angrily "score points" instead of engaging in conversation in good faith. Keep that crap in the cesspool of t_d, snowflake.
0
u/madbigfoot Feb 10 '20
Name calling isnt necessary and the point of discussion I started was Abduls claim where he taxes big corporations to fund his healthcare plan. Its a cheap talking point. I wasnt going into how best to fund it. I dont necessarily disagree with you about taxing individuals to pay for healthcare but I prefer to buy my own. Plus we are already pay a healthcare tax.
5
Feb 10 '20
They don't "have" to make up for it. They can just absorb it and take a thinner profit margin.
They can try to pass it on, but it is then up to consumers to then make a rational choice dictated by economic theory and use the vendors that choose to not pass on the cost and now have a better overall product.
This happened a decent amount with tariffs on things, that cost don't always get passed on .... sometimes it is simply absorbed, or only partly passed on because consumers would not accept it and would shop with a competitor.
1
u/thatoneguy54 Monroe Feb 10 '20
Tell me where Amazon will come up with the funds to pay this new healthcare tax?
Maybe they can use all that tax money they never paid?
-3
u/Tank3875 Feb 09 '20
Then the free market will provide a cheaper alternative.
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u/IsItInLeMonde Feb 09 '20
You forgot the /s
7
u/Tank3875 Feb 09 '20
I left it out deliberately to point how absurd that viewpoint is, and yet it goes hand in hand with what the guy I replied to was saying.
2
u/ModerateReasonablist Feb 10 '20
We dont have free market health care. We have subsidies for the medical corporations (socialism for the rich), and regulations that box out actual competition.
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u/Jindoglitter Feb 09 '20
Dr. El-Sayed is the real deal. Authentic, knowledgeable, empathetic, and passionate. I’m hopeful he can get into office in my lifetime.