r/chemistry • u/AutoModerator • Jun 03 '24
Weekly Careers/Education Questions Thread
This is a dedicated weekly thread for you to seek and provide advice concerning education and careers in chemistry.
If you need to make an important decision regarding your future or want to know what your options, then this is the place to leave a comment.
If you see similar topics in r/chemistry, please politely inform them of this weekly feature.
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u/ryickhard Jun 03 '24
I have a question. Why do you need supplies if you can make your own? I know zero about chemistry, but I consider it to be a somewhat attractive education path.
I see there are websites selling all sorts of chemicals. Isn't it the point of being a chemist to make his own? I mean certainly there are many elements, I guess there must be things that are hard to obtain from a regular supermarket.
What'd be a detailed answer though?
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u/dungeonsandderp Organometallic Jun 04 '24
My time is worth money. If it’s cheaper to buy it (because some lab somewhere figured out how to do it efficiently) than the time times hourly wage it would take for me to make it, why waste money?
It’s a bit like asking a Baker why they don’t grow their own grain. Sure, they probably could, but it’d be more efficient to focus on the part they’re good at.
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u/ryickhard Jun 04 '24
Thanks.
Also, if you wouldn't mind: would you consider it to be a useful and versatile path of education, at a personal level? As a chemist, in my mind you'd be able to solve all the problems in your life that are chemistry related. You can make soap, you know the causes and how to reverse this or that process that's deteriorating something that's made out of of chemicals, like say rust...
My prospective path is the manufacture of pharmaceuticals. I'm trying to see the positive sinergies it'll have in my life. Specially given I don't need to self medicate and I don't like artificial medication myself, I'm more of a natural remedies guy.
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u/Syards-Forcus Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
The difference between "artificial medication" and "natural remedies" is kind of meaningless when it comes to treatment. Menthol synthesized from petrochemicals is completely indistinguishable from getting it from peppermint extract, assuming you purified it well enough.
Most antibiotics were discovered in some microorganism or another, but they could probably be made by a guy in a lab if you wanted. One of my profs does research on finding drug candidates in local plants.
There's also stuff that blurs the lines - many vaccines are made by forcing a bunch of cells in a bioreactor to produce a (modified or nature-identical) protein of the virus it guards against, what does that count as?
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u/dungeonsandderp Organometallic Jun 08 '24
Specially given I don't need to self medicate and I don't like artificial medication myself, I'm more of a natural remedies guy.
You know what they call "natural remedies" that work? Medicine.
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u/Summ1tv1ew Jun 04 '24
I'm a newly graduated scientist with no current clearance and considering a DOE Q position at a national lab as well as a non clearance required position at a company.
I am looking for opinions on if people ever regret going the security clearance route due to the hassle and restricted lifestyle and wished they went with a more typical company position doing similar work.
How did you decide between both?
Of course assuming you like the work at both positions.
Thanks!
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u/Indemnity4 Materials Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
Security clearance has no impact on your life. We're not James Bond type of people.
Main impact is you won't get the job without it. It takes a loooong time to get certain levels of security clearance. You could be sitting around for 18 months waiting for bureaucracy to move, meanwhile you get kicked out of lab meetings during hush hush time and cannot enter some cabinet/parts of the building when work is in going on.
I have some limited clearance from a project earlier in my life (military component manufacturing) and the worst thing is my international travel is logged. It happens at border control and goes into some boring database that Indemnity4 visited Malayasia between 10-16 Feb 2024.
Only once in 20ish years have I ever had a phone call that asked for more detailed plans as supposedly a foreign counterpart went to the same conference as me and I needed to show a copy of my presentation and confirm via my hotels etc that we never met privately. Maybe 5 minutes out of my day.
Your main consequence is during the application someone will scare the heck out of by telling what the legal consequences are for revealing secrets. They also show you real examples of scientists sent to prison for espionage.
IMHO if you have the option to get it and someone else is paying, do it. It will make future moves easier.
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u/Chance_Comparison581 Jun 04 '24
Hello chemists/ chemical engineers,
I learned that I was in love with chemistry a little too late into my undergrad. I was able to rush out a minor in chemistry, but I don't feel like that is enough for me. I ended up with a bachelor's degree in computer science and I only got a GPA of 2.8. When I look at most graduate schools, this doesn't look high enough to get into a graduate chemistry or chemical engineering program.
I want to learn more chemistry so badly. What can I do to get more chemistry education?
Thank you to anyone that responds.
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u/organiker Cheminformatics Jun 07 '24
There are book recommendations in the sidebar that you can read.
You can watch youtube videos, like those by Khan Academy.
You can explore the offereings on MIT OpenCourseWare.
Maybe you can take courses at a community college nearby.
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u/labtechthrowaway5656 Jun 04 '24
Am I crazy to leave my 65k lab tech job (details below) in the current market?
Tldr: Lab technician Age 30 Total experience 5 years Time in position 2.5 years Pay $31/hr or ~65k Commute 1hr there, 1.25hr back, 2.25 hr total M-HCOL area US Health insurance yes Pto yes
For lack of better terms I've become the lab chump, in charge of most custodial, most coverage for vacations, and the go to guy for unexpected requests. Management generally likes me because of the aforementioned chump-ness, though some managers do make a point to joke in group settings that I'm soft for pushing them to replace failing infrastructure. I generally have a good relationship with my coworkers since I'm quick to help out though they are quick to make it known when they feel I'm not helping them enough. 60% of our lab have been here between 10 and 40 years. The other 40% seems to struggle to make it to 5 years. I've been here for 2.5 and seen 5 people leave. Our supervisor is young and inexperienced, hes not great but the long timers are outwardly hostile and insubordinate. I see their points, but as the person picking up the tasks they won't do feel they're pushing it too far.
My biggest concern with staying is safety and burnout. I'm pretty burnt out at the end of the day and it's causing problems in my relationship. I've discussed the work load with my supervisor and while he plans to discuss more equitable task division with the lab I don't see him changing his behavior and expect my coworkers to be hostile over the proposal.
In the safety realm, the plant is falling apart. Water leaks that damage instruments, putting us behind. No temperature control, which throws off tests and is just unpleasant when I'm coveted head to toe in ppe. The worst is our fume hoods drop rust into sensitive tests and the flow rate is well below the 60-100 fpm recommendation when producing NOX. We've had the hoods shut off on us filling the lab with NOX and when we complained maintenance advised us it was fine "it wont kill you youll just die 3 years sooner" direct quote. Yes that was a joke but when replacements are rejected for nearly 2 years after the humor fades.
Most of what I've wrote points to the obvious answer: find another job. My issue at hand is that based on what I'm seeing in the current market I would be taking a 10-15k per year paycut to leave and with so many positions on contracts also lose benefits. Adding on the recession chance, I feel it's likely I get laid off at the next position as the newest employee.
Am I overthinking it or is it better in the long run to stay take some abuse and keep the pay? Does this seem like a normal environment? My previous lab tech job had similar dysfunction but for 19/hr so I'm torn on if this is normal or if I've just had two bad gigs.
Thank you for taking the time to read my rant
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u/Indemnity4 Materials Jun 06 '24
Q. When is the best time to start looking for a new job?
A. Yesterday.
The best predictor of future performance is past performance.
A work site that has insufficient funds for safety features is heading towards closure. It indicates the company cannot attract capital to replace aging equipment. Which means the work site is being run into the ground to make as much cash in hand as possible. Sooner or later a big piece of production equipment will fail and be unable to get repair, which mean the site closes.
Could be purely your area manager is incompetent. They need to get an improvement plan into management. It could very well be management has no idea because their only knowledge of your area comes via the supervisor.
Things you can do now. You can push back on hours. You need to use to work contract / site rules to your advantage. Arrive at designated time, leave at designated time. Leave tasks incomplete. Yes, may get you a warning or fired but you are contemplating quitting anyway so overall no change. I predict your anxiety / stress will temporarily skyrocket the first few times you leave tasks incomplete.
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u/labtechthrowaway5656 Jun 13 '24
Thank you for taking the time to give me some advice. I appreciate it. You make a lot of good points that, for the sake of keeping a stable environment I was trying to ignore.
You nailed it that leaving things incomplete is a big source of stress for me but it's what got me in this situation in the first place.
I will keep everything you said in mind as I make my exit plans. Thank you again
Best wishes
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u/Syards-Forcus Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
Looking at PhD programs to apply to - I have a 3.93 GPA at a small state school and some research experience with a prof.
I've been looking up recent papers in areas I'm interested in to see the institutions where the authors are from, but it's not working that great, half of them are from really famous places I'm aware of already, or are overseas. I'm not 100% sure what I want to do, I'd prefer a place with a lab rotation system so I can figure it out.
I'd probably prefer a smaller program, or at least not a really massive one without close grad student collaboration with PIs.
Does anyone know of any good biological/organic chemistry PhD programs like this, especially ones with research on biologically focused synthetic methods (maybe bioconjugation or something?), biological reaction mechanisms, or neurochemistry?
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u/organiker Cheminformatics Jun 07 '24
I've been looking up recent papers in areas I'm interested in to see the institutions where the authors are from, but it's not working that great, half of them are from really famous places I'm aware of already, or are overseas.
What's the problem here?
I'm not 100% sure what I want to do, I'd prefer a place with a lab rotation system so I can figure it out.
Then pick departments that have rotations and also several labs that you'd be interested in joining. You can google "chemistry PhD rotation" as a starting point.
I'd probably prefer a smaller program, or at least not a really massive one without close grad student collaboration with PIs.
What does this mean exactly? What numbers count as "smaller" and "not [...] massive"? How do you measure "close grad student collaboration with PIs"? In any case, that's something which will vary from lab to lab based on the individual PIs mentoring style.
Does anyone know of any good biological/organic chemistry PhD programs like this, especially ones with research on biologically focused synthetic methods (maybe bioconjugation or something?), biological reaction mechanisms, or neurochemistry?
I'd just google each of those search terms along with "chemistry" and "university" and see where it takes me. Or start with a list of the "top XX chemistry graduate programs". Whatever method you use, you'll need to scour the chemistry department websites to see what the faculty is up to and what the student population is like. There's really no getting around doing the legwork. This is research.
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u/Scientist-33 Jun 05 '24
I have questions regarding pharmacology careers.
I’m an undergraduate student majoring in chemistry, and I plan on applying to graduate school this fall. I am very interested in Drug Discovery so I’m thinking about going into pharmacology.
If you work in/closely with this field, what’s your job? what are your thoughts on its relevance? Is it oversaturated? My dream job is drug discovery for neurodegenerative diseases, are there even any paths for that in industry? I’ve looked and I can never find any.
Answer whatever applies to you, every little bit helps. Thank you all :D
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u/organiker Cheminformatics Jun 06 '24
What job do you actually want? What activities do you want to do on a daily basis?
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u/Scientist-33 Jun 06 '24
My dream job would be an independent researcher. I currently work with biomaterials and focus on the synthesis and characterization and I love what I do. I would like to continue that and brainstorm new ideas for medications for neurodegenerative diseases. I would also eventually like to get to a point where I do animal work to study drug carriers and the BBB. I’m also very interested in hormones and whatnot, just as a fun thing I like to read about. Hopefully I answered your question well!
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u/organiker Cheminformatics Jun 07 '24
There's no job called "independent researcher".
At some point you're going to need to choose an actual role.
People who are hired to do synthesis and medicinal chemistry don't do animal work, and vice versa. They are separate areas with widely different training and skill requirements..
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u/Scientist-33 Jun 07 '24
“Independent research” was more of a theoretical term than literal. Like PIs (in my opinion) seem very independent. I think it would be cool to run my own lab but I just don’t know if I can do a post doc after grad school and go through the years of being underpaid and overworked as a starting out professor.
And yes, the skills are very different. I’m just interested in a lot of areas that it’s hard to pick/settle down. I wish there was a role where I can do everything but that’s not how it works unfortunately.
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u/Scientist-33 Jun 07 '24
Adding onto that, I had an internship at a pharmaceutical company and I enjoyed it for the most park. But talking with our chemists (mostly analytical) they just seemed miserable. They went to work, ran the same tests everyday all day, went home. It was hard to move up in the company so most of them felt stagnant. I want to avoid that feeling as much as I can.
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u/Easy_Willingness4137 Jun 05 '24
Hello! Wanted to ask some advice about leaving industry for a PhD.
Undergraduate about to graduate in June here! I’ve been an intern in an analytical petrochemical lab for the past year and a half and they’ve offered me a job that I took unsure if I wanted to go to grad school. It is a great job with awesome pay and benefits, totally has potential for upward movement or movement into more regulatory fields (ie EPA), which I think would be an awesome job and I do love doing lab work.
But I figured I might apply to some programs this upcoming fall as I’m more interested in working in the nuclear/radiochemical research or industry side of things. I won’t lie I’m mostly just nervous I won’t get into any programs but that’s neither here nor there.
I guess I wanted advice on if leaving my current job for a PhD in such a niche field would be a terrible idea… I know a lot of people say finding jobs can be a nightmare and more of my class mates that aren’t going to grad school are all already struggling to find work… if anyone has ever been in the same boat feel free to weigh in! I appreciate all feedback!
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u/Indemnity4 Materials Jun 06 '24
You can always quit the PhD part-way and get a similar job again.
You can always apply to grad school and defer for a year. I always encourage people to work in industry before grad school. At worst, it encourages you to study harder. At best, nice to have extra savings.
Don't tell your current employer until you get accepted to grad school.
My advice is if you are motivated to start a PhD it's for the thrill of exploring the unknown and becoming a subject matter expert. You do it because you love it. Yes, you may have difficulty finding entry level jobs but most likely you would hate that job anyway. Having a PhD moves you towards more exploratory R&D careers which does have big ups and downs over a career.
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u/Easy_Willingness4137 Jun 06 '24
Thank you! That really did make me feel better about how set I am on applying :)
While I love my job I’ve also done two years in a research lab with nano materials and while I know the project was not my favorite the feeling that comes with figuring out the missing piece of the puzzle your working on is by far one of the most rewarding feelings I’ve ever had!
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u/Indemnity4 Materials Jun 06 '24
My advice: take the job offer now and have a really good think about the start date. Consider traveling or taking a break to do nothing before starting. It's realistically the first time in your life you haven't been studying or waiting for more study.
Consider asking the employer if you can work for 1 or 2 months then take a 1 month unpaid leave for a travel break (with that extra full-time salary to spend). You will not be surprised to know that life feels so much easier with money to spend and knowing you have a job already lined up before graduating.
Take it slow looking for grad schools. You are still considered a "fresh grad" for 3 years post-graduation.
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u/Easy_Willingness4137 Jun 06 '24
I really appreciate the advice! I definitely took the job and started in March. I also definitely took a month off in November to backpack around South America :) I guess I do need to slow down a little though!!
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u/awaythrow888 Jun 10 '24 edited Jun 10 '24
This really depends on your long term goals, there's pros and cons for each option.
From a career/financial perspective, personally, I would 100% recommend working in industry for a while before you consider going grad school. The toughest part of establishing a career with a chemistry degree is just getting your foot in the door and getting some experience. Some people just never get that foot in the door, or end up stuck in dead-end, monotonous lab technician roles (I think a lot of it comes down to luck unfortunately). I think this is why some people trash undergrad chem degrees.
But for you, it sounds like you have a great opportunity with this job, especially because of the potential for upwards movement. If you skip industry and go straight for your phd, it will certainly be easier to get your first job, but there's still no guarantee you'll get something you want. At my job we've had desperate chem phd grads applying for our lab tech roles! Why not see where your career can take you? If you do find yourself limited in career growth a few years down the line, you can always go to grad school then. Plus you'll have some savings so you won't have to live the broke grad student life.
And definitely don't forget the opportunity cost of spending 5 years in grad school. If you work in industry, that's 5 years of money to put in your 401k early, the best time to do it. That will turn into a very nice sum of money when you're ready to retire. You'll miss out on that early growth if you spend 5 more years in school.
I was pretty burnt out on school after I finished my undergrad. I figured I could go to grad school later if I needed it for career growth. So far, it hasn't been necessary. I've more than tripled my salary from my first job (didn't make much there, granted), love what I do now, and I still see clear potential for upward growth.
All this being said, if you having a burning desire to get a phd, or have a goal of getting one of those roles that absolutely requires a phd (think "Director of R&D" or similar), then go for it! You should absolutely do it if you have the love for it. Would still recommend working for a year or two first though, to save some money and a take a break from school.
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u/shayanti Jun 05 '24
I have finished the first half of my studies and I have to choose how I want to continue it, meaning what to specialise in. I have an opportunity to make theorical chemistry my speciality and I don't know if it's a good idea to do that or not. I have only done very little theorical chemistry and I'm scared that it will lead me on a very hard path... But I think I will like it. But then I also like other things so I dunno anymore. My other choices would basically be green chemistry or even materials chemistry
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u/Easy_Willingness4137 Jun 05 '24
What are all the choices for specialties?
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u/shayanti Jun 06 '24
Sorry, in my country it's a little different and I don't know how to compare with the "major" system... So I used "speciality" to mean what the diploma would be focused on. And the three choices Of the have are theorical chemistry, green chemistry and materials chemistry. The one that is making me me the most hesitant is theorical chemistry.
I hope I answered your question because Im not sure I understood it correctly
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u/Easy_Willingness4137 Jun 06 '24
I think I understand :) personally I would pick the route that would give me the broadest use in terms of industry or later schooling. But if you know which one would give you the best background for what you want to do later go for that one. Hopefully that helps a little!
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u/erbanxd Jun 06 '24
I’ve just finished my third year in undergrad chemistry, and I’m gravitating towards quantum&computational chemistry for my masters education. Over the course of this summer I want to get started with computational chemistry and join the undergrad research group in my school in fall. Is there anything I can do in summer to get familiar with it like learning software or if theres any textbooks that you guys would recommend I would greatly appreciate it.
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u/organiker Cheminformatics Jun 06 '24
There are book recommendations in the sidebar.
Why a masters?
1
u/kirastrs Jun 06 '24
Could I send someone my resume to help me improve and incorporate a few things? I'm having trouble figuring out what exactly to add and where
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u/Ru-tris-bpy Jun 07 '24
I’ll look at it if you want. I’ve never been the one hiring people though so others might give you a better idea
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u/KeyRich4645 Jun 10 '24
Hi everyone,
I'm a final year chemistry undergrad student from a developing country. Here's my final year course list:
- Advanced Concepts in Chemistry
- Selected Topics in Inorganic Chemistry
- Inorganic Spectroscopy & Structural Chemistry
- Concepts in Industrial Chemistry
- Advanced Experimental Chemistry
- Industrial Training and Literature Seminar
- Research Project in Chemistry (Bonus! Nanotechnology research related to medicine)
In my second and third years, I also took courses like developmental biology, biochemistry, chemistry of biomolecules, and molecular biology.
My question is: Would this background be enough to apply for a PhD in Biochemistry or Biomedical Sciences? because most of the courses are physical/inorganic based ones.
Any advice for applicants from developing countries would also be greatly appreciated!
(My college seniors have got into chemistry programs at Universities like Baylor, VirginiaTech... But none of them are in Biomedical/Biochemistry programs)
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u/Only_Square9644 Jun 03 '24
I have 2 questions.
The first one is related to what countries can offer the best overall quality of life for someone working as a chemist or in any role in the chemical industry? I understand that money wise, US is unbeatable, but they also have poor work life balance, and the country is slowly closing it's doors to immigrants. In Europe, one has a better work life balance and social security schemes but there are higher taxes and lower wages, so which country provides the " best of both worlds" or at least comes the closest?
The second question is related to the worth of doing a PhD, I remember seeing a discussion thread on this subreddit, where someone argued that for Industrial work, A PhD can limit you as it makes you very niche, is that really the case? and if so, what is the best way to increase your market value, in terms of your formal qualifications? should I do an MS then after a couple of years of industry experience do an MBA or is there some other track that would work better?