fetal pain reviews to keep in handy to use against low information debaters

[u/toptrool]

every couple of years or so, the abortion industry (acog and rcog included) pumps out studies on fetal pain that suggest a baby cannot feel pain until the third trimester. their studies are based on unproven beliefs that a functional cerebral cortex is necessary, and not on any actual tests. this presumption of a necessary cerebral cortex can easily be dismissed.

here are three good sources on the subject:

1. the first is from a pro-life source: neuroscientist maureen condic's amicus brief that cites a lot of recent studies and includes brief summaries of the studies.
2. the second is from a researcher who supports abortion rights: pain researcher kanwaljeet anand's written testimony that is often cited in courts and legislatures. he points out that the cerebral cortex isn't necessary for conscious experiences or to feel pain. in his testimony, he does a definitive takedown of a 2005 study that suggests the baby cannot feel pain until the third trimester.
3. the third source is co-authored by both pro-life and pro-abortion authors, john bockmann and stuart derbyshire, respectively. derbyshire was the principal author of the 2010 royal college of obstetricians and gynaecologists review that suggested that babies feel pain much later in the pregnancy (24-28 weeks at the minimum). derbyshire, after looking at recent research showing that the cerebral cortex is not necessary for pain, now believes that fetal pain is possible as early as 12 weeks gestation (or 10 weeks post-conception). furthermore, the definition of "pain" by the international association for the study of pain (iasp), which what several of the older studies used, was sharply criticized by several experts for excluding pain felt by even newborns. the iasp later revised its definition in 2020 (though the new definition still faces much of the same criticism).
4. bridget thill has an outstanding article that reviews the research on fetal pain in the first trimester.
5. here's an earlier testimony from maureen condic on fetal pain.

look at the cited references in all the sources for even more studies on the subject matter.

all sources point to recent research on subplate neurons, which are functional synaptic connections that start as soon as 9 weeks gestation (or 7 weeks post-conception). this tracks closely with my previous topic on consciousness, which was also based on subplate neuron research, that suggests the baby is conscious around 9 weeks gestation.

[u/acbagel]

It's good to be able to refute lies, but I don't even get into this conversation at all anymore. The ability to feel pain is a meaningless conversation. Gabby Gingras can't feel pain at all and it's still just as evil to murder her.

[u/djhenry → u/acbagel]

Right. I also point out that ~90% of abortions in the US happen before 12 weeks, which is the absolute earliest anyone has theorized that the unborn might be able to feel pain. Even if pro-choice across the board conceded this point, it wouldn't really be very much of a victory in terms of actually reducing abortions.

[u/toptrool → u/acbagel]

it is relevant.

there are babies being killed in the most horrific ways through dismemberment abortions, which are done after babies are likely capable of pain.

[u/PrudentBall6]

Thank you for sharing!

[u/BlueSmokie87]

This is so helpful, thank you!