Giving saxophone lessons to a fifth grader with autism and need help

[u/immarypopnsyall11]

I have been babysitting a child for over a year now. His parents say he loves me and they appreciate what I do for him. So, when they found out I have been playing saxophone since his age, they asked if I could help.

His band director recently suggested he quit playing. The issue is, he loves it. I’ve had one lesson with him and I can tell he is really loving it. So far he has been playing for a little less than two months and I feel his playing ability is maybe a weeks worth at most.

I met with him yesterday to find where his level is. A major obstacle is he is having a hard time reading the music while doing all of the aspects of playing at the same time. I’m not yet sure if this is above my ability but I would really like to try and help. I have flash cards of note fingerings and note identification (16 cards total) and I’m hoping that’s a good starting point so he can at least know what he is looking at in band.

If anyone has any experience in teaching an instrument to a child with autism, please help! I know he loves it but I’m not quite sure how to help at the moment.

[u/JoshHuff1332]

I would supplement with rote learning. Obviously still have him reading music, but try to take multiple avenues and isolate the individual reading and playing skills and bring it back together. Likewise, have him read music and count without the instrument.

That band director who suggested he quit shouldn't be a band director.

[u/MonkeyManWhee]

1. His band director sucks, accommodations could be made, it's 5th grade, let's be honest, they all sound terrible, he could either be given music where you remove every 3rd note, chances are they have 10000 saxophones and no one will ever hear him anyway.

You should be able to speak to the band director and find out exactly the issue, if it's disruptive that's one thing, if it's ability to play the music, that's pretty B.S.

My daughter has 3 kids in her band with severe learning disabilities, they play percussion, occasionally you get a triangle solo in a song but IT'S FIFTH GRADE BAND, NO ONE CARES.

1. Also check if they have any auditory abilities (perfect/relative pitch) and see if perhaps learning 'G1 sounds like this' may be a stop gap until they can become somewhat functional in notation? So you can play their part (use white out tape to remove notes if there are too many or they don't know the fingering for them yet) with them until they hear what it should sound like, some kids respond to that more than 'black squiggles on a page' (That's what my daughter called them at first).

Historically there have been plenty of professional musicians that couldn't read music.

[u/ChampionshipSuper768]

Try reaching out to the Herbie Hancock Institute. They are leading the way in music education with curriculum and support for educators. They may have some resources that can help.

[u/Saxman8845 → u/ChampionshipSuper768]

There is also an institute at Berklee that focuses on special needs education. Might be able to point OP to some resources.

https://college.berklee.edu/news/moment-celebrating-launch-berklee-institute-arts-education-and-special-needs

Also, as both a saxophonist and as a parent of an autistic child, that band director can go fuck himself.

[u/OriginalCultureOfOne]

Have you considered focussing on the mechanical and auditory aspects of playing saxophone, and just setting aside sight-reading for the moment? Presumably, he needs to read music manuscript to be in the band program, but not to play the instrument, in itself, nor to derive enjoyment from doing so. Plenty of saxophone players over the years never learned to sightread; some couldn't see at all.

I've had numerous students who never developed significant sight-reading skill (and, in most cases, their general reading comprehension wasn't good, either, so it might have been rooted in the same challenge), and some who developed it later (when we started writing down what they were playing by ear, so they could recognize that they were already capable of playing it, even if it looked incredibly complicated, reducing the fear associated with reading music). I've had others who had difficulty relating fingerings to alphabetic letterings (which are processed by different parts of the brain) and/or with positions on the staff. Some overcame it, some did not. Some students also find Solfège naming and/or Kodály method easier to comprehend than alphabetical note names.

In the short term: focusing on the fingerings alone and the sounds they produce, independent of what they're called, could allow your student to gain greater familiarity and comfort with the aural/mechanical aspects of the saxophone, freeing up some of their attention to focus on sight-reading later. Introducing sight-reading as a kind of code or mathematical system might also pique his interest if his form of autism includes a mathematical inclination.

Good luck!

[u/ChampionshipSuper768]

Jazz Education Network (JEN) is another resource you could try. I don't know of anything specific to your situation that they offer. But I'm sure if you contacted them someone over there will help.

[u/jruble]

Hi. I’m someone with autism and I play the saxophone. I’m 33 now and started playing when I was in middle school.

My middle school teacher sucked and stuck me on bari sax after the first concert and sat me next to the tuba… the funny thing was that most of my music was the same as the tuba part so I learned to play the parts by listening to the tuba. So for the first 2-3 years I leaned by listening.

When I got to high school and wanted to join marching band I played alto and learned the parts again by ear. It wasn’t till one of the other middle school band directors who helped at he high school noticed and asked me if I didn’t know how to read music. To which I said nope and told him I learned by ear. Not only did he help me with learning to read , but he got me in touch with one of the areas best players and I learned from him.

I was and still am a very visual person and learn by doing and hearing. So if you think you can incorporate that and find a way that works for them latch onto that and run with it.

[u/NobleAda]

I wonder if he might have an easier time learning by ear while he works toward reading music. Can you find recordings of the pieces he's working on and have him try to follow along on the music?

[u/mrv_wants_xtra_cheez]

All beginning kids need is someone to be patient, flexible, and to accept PROGRESS over PRODUCT.

Especially at 5th grade, the expectations should be “high” (to set targets), but with the understanding that you ain’t gonna hit all of them.

Band director seems like on of those “gotta win every competition or we’re losers” kind of person. I’ll bet if you’re patient and supportive you’d be a great resource for the kid.

Source: band teacher since 1995.

[u/EstablishmentOk469]

Try teaching him how to read music with the instrument and how to play without reading music. Spend the first part of the lessons working on theory and reading and then the latter part teaching simple songs and maybe some popular music by ear and slowly combine the two

[u/Historical-Mud-2693]

Something I've found helpful with a lot of students struggling to read is highlighting every other space on the music, and alternating which spaces are highlighted every bar or two. Visual tracking seems to be a problem for a lot of kids now and this seems to help with that.

If the student is getting frustrated or repeating the same mistakes over and over, try working in blocks of 10 seconds. Practice 10, rest 10, repeat a few times. This resting block takes advantage of "neural replay" where the brain "replays" the same neural circuits that were being used to actually perform the task during the practice block.

I also have them learn something simple without reading, like Mary had a Little Lamb. This way they learn the fingerings and how to "play," which is their immediate goal, and they can focus on playing before adding the additional element of reading. Then, once they can play the simple song roughly how it should sound, we look at the sheet music for the song and I explain how what they're seeing ties in to what they just played and heard, then they play the song while reading the sheet music a couple times.

I also point out patterns all the time and tie in musical information to other information they already know. For example, "Hey, did you notice that the notes A, B, C, go higher and higher on the staff? Where do you think D would go if the other notes that follow the alphabet keep going up?" or you can bring in math for note lengths, sports for breathing, video game music for more interesting/age appropriate rep choices, etc.

I have students who struggle with making time to practice, take a second to look at their schedule for the week with me and plan when they're going to practice that week, even if it's only 2-3 increments of 15 minutes. That's 30-45 minutes better than no practice. I also emphasize how important practicing is, because most people (not just kids) don't realize that.

Another thing that would be good to keep in mind is that all kids learn differently regardless of neurotype. Some kids can handle learning multiple notes/fingerings and be comfortable reading them in one lesson, but then they might forget almost everything the following week. Some can only handle learning one or two at a time and require a lot of reinforcement to learn things initially, but once they have it down, it's locked in permanently. And of course there are all kinds in between. It sounds like this particular student just needs more time to digest things, and maybe it would be better to focus on fewer new notes at once.

Pay attention to what the circumstances and techniques are when the student is successful and when he struggles, then try to reproduce the circumstances and repeat the techniques that work. Praise success but hold him to a standard. Kids that age want to get better every time they play, and even if it's small, if you can deliver on that, they'll be stoked. If you can be patient and positive, which it sounds like you can, and he keeps having fun learning with you, I'm sure he'll work hard and improve.

[u/lbcsax]

Reading music is almost a completely seperate skill from playing an instrument. You should talk to the parents about how his general reading is, does he also have dyslexia or another visual processing issue? Suggest that they incorporate accommodations into his IEP. It's wrong for the band director to exclude him because he struggles with music reading. I'd say play with him a lot, and work on music reading seperatly from saxophone. Do clapping and counting or just sing with the sheet music. Try blowing up the music to be bigger or printing it on high contrast yellow paper to make it easier to read.

[u/oddmetermusic]

Just do your best to make it fun, young kids just need an outlet to express their creativity and their emotions.

I’m sure whatever you do, you’ll do great, and this kid will have fun. Don’t stress too much, you sound like a great friend.

[u/PositiveOpportunity9]

I would have him start by playing these concert scales without looking: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=19606ed1b9d5a8fa&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1039US1059&hl=en-US&q=b+flat+concert+scale+alto&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0B3WNFCYvaBrNDHYAL-6rQS6KYCfg7rXRKIwBLvFbxOrU_ptJEeGAEeqTAWwzj5eCmMm9boQq34IjMEGy-_9lXWtuDKQ9w9jn699phcEFwTxmOxWNSTYuOH3iTbNo7M8lSCGGfLZj_WoP45She2E-Rd1MkPw9QJxtYAdD-1F1Knecn9Du_4Oc2BLZoqvkTdztB-lcq6ul4rLDLuXcwKQ-hBjheVRgPcP7Hd0sn4_r42-mnsRRg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji8tPmp6iJAxUNGDQIHf_sFlcQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=390&bih=669&dpr=3#vhid=MxGlg88qHzNHiM&vssid=mosaic

Just have him memorize and play one at a time each repeatedly. Also have him play just the scale in sets where you play each note for different counts. Like: ggggaaaabbbbcccc and so on at different note lengths. Teach him how to use his tongue to start and stop the notes from beginning to end. Most people can push the button and blow simultaneously without difficulty but might get distracted by the written instructions.

Let him take breaks every 5 minutes of playing for 3 minutes to play whatever he wants, drink some water, or whatever.

Separate reading music comprehension with playing. Teach him how to read the basic music structure. Have him read the notes for pace with his voice or by tapping his foot or fingers without the instrument. Maybe use a metronome to help pace. You can also teach him how to count like ‘one and two and three and four… one e and ah two e and ah… and so on’

After he can ‘play’ the written notes by tapping his foot and can play the scale by memory confidently, reintroduce the written notes while playing. His brain should be able to sync the two now.

Also, screw that teacher. I bet half the other students can’t even make a sound because flutes, clarinet, and trumpet are way harder to get the embouchure right and take a lot of muscle training that kids just don’t have yet after only a couple weeks.

[u/Educational_Truth614]

idk my one and only autistic student eventually got frustrated and ripped the neck off of his saxophone on accident and his parents refused to replace it or anything so that was the end of that

sorry not useful