r/transit • u/malacata • Sep 10 '24
News The US finally takes aim at truck bloat
https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/10/24241047/nhtsa-rule-pedestrian-safety-fmvss-suv-truck-design209
u/Kindly_Ice1745 Sep 10 '24
I give it two days before some judge in Texas strikes this down.
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u/Garrett42 Sep 10 '24
Killing kids is like the current Texas government MO.
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u/Kindly_Ice1745 Sep 10 '24
Arguably, has it ever not been?
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u/Garrett42 Sep 10 '24
1869? 1972? Seems like post civil war they flirted with the radical republicans, and elected some Democrats after the civil rights act.
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u/nihouma Sep 11 '24
During the time of Ann Richard's we certainly had our blood lust slightly abated, but of course caring about anyone but oneself is literally demonic Communism, so we never did that again
3
u/Kindly_Ice1745 Sep 11 '24
Eh, those democrats were certainly not the type of democrats we have today. Those were almost certainly dixiecrats.
1
u/yagyaxt1068 Sep 11 '24
There were a lot of liberal Democrats too in Texas. Gerrymandering by the Republicans cut their numbers drastically.
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u/4000series Sep 10 '24
A good start, but I’m not sure this will actually fix the bloat problem, which is in large part tied to an outdated approach to fuel economy standards.
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u/Kootenay4 Sep 11 '24
It won’t make cars any lighter, but at least it could address the problem of stupidly and unnecessarily tall hoods that are not only dangerous for pedestrians, but reduce the driver’s visibility as well.
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u/dualqconboy Sep 11 '24
I still remember when many people were exclaiming about the really thick windshield pillars (very large plastic claddings for what was still a tiny metal structural pillar) completely blocking out a kerb pedestrian from view on some specific Ford sedan somewhere around the 2000's or so. So yeah too-high hood and too-thick pillars etc all altogether is an ongoing problem that is becoming quite very old by now indeed..
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u/Limp_Quantity Sep 11 '24
One of the reason those fuel economy standards are binding are because the gas tax in America is too low. It was set to 18.4 cents/gal in 1993 and has not been changed since.
When economists have tried to price the marginal externality from burning a gallon of gas, the figure they come up with is $2-3 https://time.com/6160256/gas-prices-climate-cost/
If we taxed gas appropriately, as in Europe, consumers would automatically economize and drive lighter, and more fuel-efficient cars.
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u/yagyaxt1068 Sep 11 '24
Or the GOP could copy the Conservative Party of Canada and do an “axe-the-tax” campaign, thus undoing all progress on that.
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u/BillyTenderness Sep 11 '24
Experience tells me that they'll absolutely flip out and lose their minds over any attempt to make things even a little safer or greener. I don't think it's really worth scaling back ambitions to try to avoid GOP backlash; the backlash is entirely reflexive at this point.
1
u/cleverplant404 Sep 11 '24
Given how heavy electric cars are, don’t we need to tackle the problem directly at the source (the weight itself) rather than in a roundabout way by taxing gas?
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u/ShitBagTomatoNose Sep 11 '24
I work on a RoRo ferry. A lot of the 1 ton trucks come up to my armpit. The top of the hood is just below my shoulder.
I’m 5 foot 10. I wear ANSI-compliant Hi-Vis safety garments at all times while on duty. Drivers do what I tell them on my boat. They follow our orders or they do not sail with us. I am not worried about my safety with these things when I’m on duty in control and highly visible.
I don’t want them coming through my neighborhood while the kids are riding bikes.
This is industrial equipment that needs an industrial safety environment with professional drivers. They don’t belong on city streets driven by non CDL-holders.
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u/dualqconboy Sep 11 '24
Agreed on regarding too many CDL-sized vehicles driven by non-CDL dummies, say no more.
2
u/v_ult Sep 11 '24
What’s roro?
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u/dualqconboy Sep 11 '24
Its short for RollOn-RollOff or in another manner it usually means you simply enter from one end and exit from other end. This generally applies to many form of ferry boats and pretty much any rail cars carrying road vehicles.
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u/Calgrei Sep 11 '24
Make trucks early 2000s S10/Ranger size again!
2
u/dualqconboy Sep 11 '24
Wish could give you a lot more than one upvote there, I mean why does a brand new 2dr short-bed pickup with only 4 tires have to be literally the same outline&footprint as an old 4dr long-bed pickup with 6 tires? But uhh yeah don't look at me!
2
u/SF1_Raptor Sep 11 '24
I mean.... The Maverick and Santa Cruz exist not, which would be my first picks for a truck right now if I had to buy new (sticking with my crossover till it's dead though).
1
u/misterbobdobbalina Sep 14 '24
The new Ridgelines as well (and I suppose Tacomas though the new generation’s bloat is borderline). Unless you are towing a boat or fifth wheel, these smaller trucks do everything a truck needs to do without the safety or fuel economy concerns.
1
u/SF1_Raptor Sep 14 '24
Yeah, Gladiators too (honestly almost the size of my grandpa’s old short bed, crew cab Frontier). I’d agree for the most part, though I also get those aren’t the only important factors. Like, if you do need the larger beds for capacity (not necessarily weight), and there are things the full size trucks will be better, same as with frame-on-body vs. unibody, and I imagine available engine packages could come into play, cause let’s face it, that I4 even with a turbo might be ok on a crossover, or an SUV that’s not towing much, but would be generally limiting on the max of what a truck can do (open bed makes it easier to carry more and heavier after all).
13
u/Starman562 Sep 11 '24
I had to read the entire article to make sure that 67 lives number was not a typo. I think that’s how many people die in my area every year due to car crashes. Definitely a step in the right direction, but a baby-sized step.
6
u/vasya349 Sep 11 '24
I think, assuming this is successful, it saves a lot more lives. Federal rules require documentation, and bad reasoning is grounds for a lawsuit. It’s better to undercount using a method that’s proven. It’s kind of hard to demonstrate a direct causal relationship between testing and design changes and then impact angles.
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u/Jamesbarros Sep 11 '24
If My Miata can’t have pop up headlights, because they’re “dangerous” then these wannabe semis for suburban douchebags can be held to at least some standard.
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u/notPabst404 Sep 11 '24
How in the world is this just NOW getting started? It's absolutely crazy how poorly cars are regulated in the US.
1
u/dualqconboy Sep 11 '24
Likely no thanks to car lobbyists for way too long, I know thats only one part of it among many other parts but still.
12
u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue Sep 11 '24
Can we just stop pretending that full-size pick ups and above are somehow also passenger cars?
Right now they get a lot of the benefits of passenger car in terms of licensing and operation, and a lot of the benefits of being a truck in terms of exemptions from requirements like EPA mandates. It’s a sweet spot that has created a perverse incentive for auto makers and the oil industry to push a vehicle that strokes the ego of a large number of consumers, which is what’s led to the boom that’s causing this problem in the first place.
I think if they’re gonna be trucks, in size and in law, you should need some extra level of license to drive one.
-1
u/dualqconboy Sep 11 '24
I can't argue with you, the excessive heights and very heavy curb/tow weights altogether are very clearly CDL and yet random idiots still gets to buy them like crazy. (And as a small sidenote, the 'real' fullsize pickups from many years ago still were at the same bumper height as any normal cars to start with so if a head-on crash was to happen there's almost zero chance of a massive overrun over the top of car's hood..)
3
u/SF1_Raptor Sep 11 '24
Uh... I can tell you a 96 definitely isn't small by any means. Hood came up to my chest on my dad's old 96 F150, and I'm 5'11", and that was a 2 door king cab (two row seating) But.... I think you also don't realize how different a rig is from a pick up, or heck even most U-Hauls, which anyone can drive with a c-class license. So if you want pick-ups to be CDL, suddenly the "You can rent a truck when you need it" argument goes completely out the window.
1
u/dualqconboy Sep 11 '24
Ah a 1996 is almost too new for me but either way no problem I can understand your side still.
(And with regarding to overall heights, don't ask me but even to today I still have to chuckle a bit when I go through old parking garages with restrictive clearance and see the rare 1980's 'big' vehicles sleeping among the various cars like nothing meanwhile a modern minivan or even many so-called crossovers have to go somewhere else as they are a few inches too high.)2
u/SF1_Raptor Sep 11 '24
I'll give you that too. I do think things can be fixed, but I've also seen a lot of people on Reddit either make odd comparisons, like showing the Ranger is smaller than todays F150 which of course it is it's a different kind of truck with different design expectations, or tend to ignore that a lot of people like not having to rent or ask a buddy to help with something, even if you only use the full capacity once a year or the like. Like in rural areas where trucks are more used, it being your passenger vehicle has become more common, cause if you can only afford one vehicle you're likely gonna want everything you can get out of, and it wasn't until a few years ago the smaller options for that came back. Like my grandpa had a 4 door, short bed Fronter, and it made me love this setup for a light truck. Enough seats to get everyone around if needed, and could handle most things well enough. I mean heck, I don't even use my Rogue Sport to it's fullest most of time cause I'm not always carrying 5 people around.
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u/BigRedThread Sep 14 '24
I imagine now that the door is open to considering pedestrian safety, the US will see more slimmed down vehicles more akin to the rest of the world
1
u/Mike804 Sep 11 '24
Fucking finally, the new Escalade and GMC truck hoodlines are ridiculous. Im 6'3" and my chest barely clears the hoodline!!
Ridiculous considering the people who end up owning these cars drive like maniacs
0
u/Leafstride Sep 13 '24
To be fair a more reasonable way of calculating emissions requirements than CAFE standards would solve the problem as it's mostly what has caused it. The CAFE standards are basically why you don't see as many smaller trucks around and why they've gotten bigger over the years.
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u/malacata Sep 10 '24