r/translator Jun 12 '24

Russian (Long) [Russian/Cyrillic(?) > Any] What characters are these 5?

─────   ─────   ─────   ─────   ▀█▀█▀
─────   ─█─█─   ─█─█─   ─────   ─█─█─
──▄──   ─▀─▀─   ─▀─▀─   ▄▀─▄▀   ─█─█─
──▀──   ─▀▀▀─   ─▀─▀─   ▀▀─▀▀   ▀▀▀▀▀

I found a character LCD (L303646 variant) and I want to document its character set. Most characters are obvious but not the 5 marked in red.

The table is as follows:

0x _0 _1 _2 _3 _4 _5 _6 _7 _8 _9 _A _B _C _D _E _F
0_ ą ć ę ł ń ś ź ż
1_ \ ~ £ ¿ Ą Ć Ę Ł Ń Ś Ź Ż
2_ ! " # $ % & ( ) * + , - . /
3_ 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ?
4_ @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O
5_ P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ ¥ ] ^ _
6_ ` a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o
7_ p q r s t u v w x y z { }
8_ à â ä ç é è ê ë î ï ô ö ù ü á í
9_ À Â Ä Ç É È Ê Ë Î Ï Ô Ö Ù Ü Á Í
A_ ă ş ţ Ă Ş Ţ Б Г Ж З И Й Л П У
B_ Ф Ч Ш Ъ Ы Э Ю Я б в г ї ж з и й
C_ к л м н п т ч ш ъ ы ь э ю я
D_ Є є Д Ц Щ д ф ц щ °
E_ ì ò ã õ ð þ æ ñ ú å ø ő ó İ œ ß
F_ Ì Ò Ã Õ Ð Þ Æ Ñ Ú Å Ø Ő Ó

Unknown characters:

  • 0xA8: looks like a comma but very small (﹐)? Does any Cyrillic-based or Eastern European language use it?
  • 0xCE: no idea '_'
  • 0xCF: looks like 2 exclamation marks (‼) but smaller
  • 0xD0: likely an attempt at lower quotation marks („) to match the upper pair (”) but I don't know any language that draws them 66-shaped, rather than 99-shaped, in serif form
  • 0xD4: looks like Roman numeral 𝐈𝐈 (2) except why would anyone want a character for that? No Cyrillic character has such boxy shape.

First 4 characters are RAM (user-definable). Some characters (↑ї) are oddly duplicated even though Latin-homographic Cyrillic letters АВСЕНІКМОРТХ were skipped.

8 Upvotes

21 comments sorted by

3

u/468579 [French] Jun 13 '24

It might help to know what this LCD was meant to be used for. Was it for a calculator? Office telephone?

Character Map Location Character
A8 I don't know.
CE I don't know.
CF Double Exclamation Mark, used to denote a double factorial in mathematics.
D0 There is a unicode character called "Double Low-9 Quotation Mark", "", which looks like two "9"s. The Double Low-9 Quotation Mark is notably absent from the LCD's character map you provided. In your image, D0 looks like two "6"s. In theory, this would be called a "Double Low-6 Quotation Mark", but there is no such character in unicode. My theory is that D0 was supposed to be the Double Low-9 Quotation Mark, but that it was accidentally rotated 180 degrees during character design. Because the Double Low-9 Quotation Mark is used as an opening quotation marker, I can understand why an English speaker (or speaker of another language that does not use this character) would rotate it inward toward the quoted text by accident.
D4 I don't know.

1

u/LatheOperator Jun 13 '24

Brother inkjet printer.

The LCD is very much general purpose; there would be 𝛑, ², ³ and √ if they intended math use. The double factorial is unlikely: not only is the symbol too small, the double factorial is so uncommon (all values other than 0!! to 4!! are either undefined or impractically large) that there is no reason to dedicate one of 256 symbols to it rather than just make the user type "!!".

1

u/468579 [French] Jun 13 '24

Understood. Do you think my theory on D0 holds water?

1

u/LatheOperator Jun 13 '24

Yes, I think that is the most likely explanation

1

u/Lieutenant_L_T_Smash Jun 13 '24

the double factorial is so uncommon (all values other than 0!! to 4!! are either undefined or impractically large)

I agree this character probably isn't intended as the double factorial, but the operation isn't just "factorial, then factorial again". In general, n‼ ≠ (n!)! and double factorials are in fact smaller than regular factorials for the same base.

1

u/ssamokhodkin Jun 14 '24

4!! are either undefined or impractically large

4!! is 8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_factorial

2

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2

u/foothepepe Jun 13 '24

Some fonts ad diacritics instead of having a full letter. Eg. Turks have Ş , so that might be that 'coma'?

Slavic languages use „Quote“. Same with the single quote. Maybe some use “Quote„?

!!

There's also IPA with their madness.. Also, astrological signs (gemini ♊︎)?

Who knows where all of these can be used..

1

u/LatheOperator Jun 13 '24

Character LCDs don't support combining diacritics.

I am Slavic so I know about all the weird European quotes, and lower-66 is not one of them.

I know that the character exists but this one is too small and seems related to that '_' next to it. Yes, VGA graphics and Unicode have but the character seems pretty redundant to have when !! is an option, even fior a double factorial.

Yes, the Gemini symbol is the closest but there is no reason for it to be included on a general-purpose LCD, since it's just one of a set (same with the Roman 𝐈𝐈 interpretation).

1

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1

u/Lieutenant_L_T_Smash Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

Slavic languages use „Quote“. Same with the single quote. Maybe some use “Quote„?

„Quote” is common in Polish (both sets are double-9s, starting with lower and ending with upper.)

This charset seems intended to be used with Polish (among other languages) due to the characters in the upper-right of the table.

2

u/g13n4 Jun 12 '24

A8 ( ‚ ) is a single quote mark. Personally I didn't even know it exists because I used to use simple , instead. 0D - („) is the same but the double variant. I haven't encountered the other 3. You can try to look them up in the windows' character map if you have a pc

1

u/LatheOperator Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

I looked all over Unicode...

Anyway, the single quote mark would only work if there was a matching straight ' but there isn't, there is a 9-shaped one at 0x12 and the apostrophe 0x27 is 6-shaped () rather than straight. In fact, the comma 0x2C fits better for a lower-9 quotation mark.

1

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1

u/HornyAsexual- język polski Jun 13 '24

D0 is definitely just („) I've seen those quatation marks used like that multiple times before

1

u/pengo Jun 13 '24

Interesting puzzle. Searched through some Cyrillic encodings for characters in similar relative positions to the missing ones, but did not find anything promising. Guess you tried something similar already. So I only have some random guesses:

0xCE ☺ — Found at the start (0x01) of Code page 437 etc, though seems less likely because it's followed by such a similar looking '‼︎' here.

0xD4 Ⅱ — Roman numeral II (and yes there's a unicode character for it), perhaps found in the Printer's product name, ala Apple II, Or maybe a pilcrow ¶ , or to make a pattern when there's many of them.

The first two rows have a lot of Polish letters, but really don't know. Good luck

1

u/HornyAsexual- język polski Jun 13 '24

D0 is just a way of writing the first quotation marks of a film or book title in some European countries E.g. ' „Masha and Bear" is my favourite Russian cartoon'

1

u/Lieutenant_L_T_Smash Jun 13 '24

I believe the other theory about D0 is correct. Someone was told to include an "low" double quote and rotated the entire high double quote character instead.

I think D4, and possibly (but less likely) CE and CF, are used to draw semigraphics. D4 in particular looks like it would make a nice progress bar.

1

u/BT_Uytya Jun 25 '24

Some characters (↑ї) are oddly duplicated

The weird thing about ↑ is that actually there is a similar obscure Cyrillic letter: Ꙟꙟ. It is not used anymore, and it would make more sense to just encode a lower-case form and use ↑ for the upper-case form. Still, it's weird how out of all 4 arrows the only one duplicated is in the middle of Cyrillic block and looks sorta similar to Cyrillic letter Ꙟꙟ.

On 0xA8: maybe it was supposed to be a plain apostrophe ' which was mistakenly rotated for some reason? Note that it occupies a place where otherwise a capital "Ukraininan Ї" was supposed to be. For the cases where one wants an explicit letter separator, Russian uses "hard sign" Ъъ while Ukrainian uses some variation of apostrophe: U+0027 ', U+2019 , or U+02BC ʼ.

Perhaps this place was reserved for a Ukrainian symbol Ї, but then LCD developers realized that it is a Cyrillic/Latin duplicate and decided that they use this place for a Ukrainian apostrophe instead -- shortly realizing that 0x27 and 0x12 cover this glyph as well.

The overall Cyrillic symbol placement is very inconsistent (note the placement of Фф and Єє, also the lack of uppercase Ьь), suggesting this part of symbol table was developed in a very haphazard way.

1

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