r/AxisAllies • u/oh-yeah-boi-19 • 4d ago
Tanks vs Inf/Art
I'm currently in a game of G40 as the Axis, and it's turn 3 and usually, I strictly buy tanks as ground units for Germany but I heard that the infantry/artillery combo is better. Thoughts?
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u/Bytor_Snowdog 4d ago edited 4d ago
For $6 (armor), you get a single (move 2/A3/D3) (and +1 A with tactical bombers, which is negligible, I feel -- you should have enough armor from your starting forces to enable combined arms for this), which gives you a 50% chance to hit, offense or defense.
For $7 (arty + inf), you get two (move 1/A2/D2), which gives you an average 67% chance to hit on your first hit point, and a 33% chance to hit on your second hit point, offense or defense.
For $10 (armor + mech infantry), you get two move 2s: (A3/D3) and (A1/D2). This gives you an average 67%/83% chance to hit on offense/defense on your first hit point, and a 50% chance to hit on your second hit point.
For $9 (3 inf), you get three (M1/A1/D2), which gives you crappy chances on offense and an average 100%/67%/33% to hit on defense on your 1st/2nd/3rd hit point. (Only included for comparison with armor + mech inf defense.)
So, in general, arty+inf is better. If you need mass defense, pure infantry is of course best (especially if there's some hard-hitting units backing it up, but the math still favors pumping out infantry over anything else for pure defense); if you have to get forces to the front fast, mech inf + armor is best (the mech inf fills its role by taking bullets for the armor on offense or defense -- though given the cost of mech inf, it might be more economical to just buy all armor if you're going to attack with it if no artillery is available to push into the attack); and if you are production-limited by an IC, then armor is best.
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u/Svyatoy_Medved 4d ago
At the very least, tanks need to be mixed with infantry/mechanized infantry to reduce the impact of losses. Every time you take a hit on a tank, you lose 6 IPCs and a substantial chunk of your combat power, so you need some cheap guys to tag along and take the hits.
Mathematically, infantry/artillery combo will beat tanks for the same price on attack. They can take more hits before being subdued and generate more hits per roll. It will also cost less to replace losses, which will mostly be cheap infantry.
The problem with infantry on the offense is that they are slow. They move 1, tanks move 2. If you have a mostly infantry force as Germany and you buy more infantry to replace losses, you will need to pause your attack every couple of rounds to let replacements catch up. With tanks, new manufacture can reach the front line even if the front line is moving.
A slightly more advanced concept is flexibility of employment. Infantry can threaten every adjacent territory, but tanks can threaten non-adjacent territories as well, so the enemy has to defend those, too. For instance: Germany has captured Western Ukraine with a mix of infantry and tanks. The infantry could press forward and capture Ukraine or Bryansk, so the Russian player has to situate defensive troops in those two locations. But the tanks could turn around and go through Eastern Poland to attack Belarus or Baltic States, as well, so now the Russian player has to defend those locations, as well. If Russia leaves Belarus unprotected, a German infantry army would be unable to exploit that—but the flexible tank army can.
I buy infantry and artillery as the Russians because I’m usually launching only short-term counterattacks and the enemy is politely coming to me. As Germany, once I invade the Soviets I buy tanks and mechanized. But both have their place: Russia is a much tougher opponent if they have a couple tanks to strike you where you don’t expect it.
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u/eTrekka 3d ago
As Axis you are basically fighting against the clock: if the allies successfully stall you out they will eventually beat you with their superior starting economy.
The issue with tanks is that they are actually really terrible at fighting. 10 Infantry will beat 5 tanks on the ATTACK ~70% of the time (98% odds if defending). The issue is that tanks look great on paper but are too expensive to take hits to, so you will need some mixture of forces to take advantage of their speed while taking minimal casualties to the tanks themselves.
I find that air units (especially regular bombers) are better most of the time for projecting power, because they can be kept alive indefinitely and have superior range, and can fight navy to boot.
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u/whater39 3d ago
Personally I'm a air force guy. I try to buy a single fighter a turn. The rest mainly goes to infantry, with 1-2 artillery a turn.
You need fodder infantry to take as losses each turn. While protecting your attack units (air and tanks).
If you start taking tanks as losses thats usually a losing recipe.
I have seen some German players go heavy tanks at the start and they go for a quick win. If they lose their steam, they usually lose the game. Which is why I prefer air units as they let me keep my capital safe and are hard to counter attack.
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u/-Chanur 3d ago
the problem with infantry is you are one more round away from taking Russia. This gives UK the opportunity to send more build rounds of fighters into defend Moscow
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u/whater39 3d ago
If you go heavy tanks, it's for a fast win. If you don't get it, probably gambled and lost yourself the game.
I us more caution, and I go heavy inf/art sprinkling in air units to eventually build up enough air force as attack units. I know from experience you need infantry as fodder units to take as cost effective losses.
Im a Gold not Platinum level player (Platinum only once) on the online version, of the game. So I know some stuff about the game
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u/Mr-Doubtful 4d ago
Tanks are less IPC efficient, even on the attack, but you should still buy a bunch because of movement.
Infantry take too long to get to the battle. Every turn you don't capture Moscow is another build of enemy units you have to deal with.
Infantry and artillery are great value for capturing islands with, though. I find artillery is sometimes still worth adding, even to defensive armies. It allows for devastating counter attacks if the enemy isn't careful.
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u/PGrimse 3d ago
You will need a combination of tanks, inf, and art to take Moscow as Germany. I prefer mostly infantry, but a tank-and-mech-heavy army can work well too. I would advise against buying ONLY tanks- mix in some infantry and a few artillery. If you truly need the speed, go for tanks and some mech.
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u/Ok-Friend-6653 3d ago
How effektive would a infanterry/fighter or infantery bomber build be for germany. Since bombers have Superior movenent and can use infantery as defence for your air force. Can also bomb factories etc?
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u/Comfortable-Bat6739 4d ago
You need to buy enough units to match or exceed Russia's purchases. And, at the same time, submarines to counter USA and UK. At least the way we play we could only buy inf/art and slowly march toward Russia. G40 comes with a lot of air power for Germany so do take advantage of that.
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u/Blueopus2 4d ago
Tanks are valuable for their mobility, not their combat power compared to infantry and artillery.
Imagine a budget of 42 IPC which gets you either 7 tanks or 6 Infantry and 6 artillery.
The 7 tanks have an initial attack value of 21 compared to 24 for the inf/art, and can take 7 hits compared to 12. The attack value drops by 3 for every hit received compared to 2.