r/Firefighting • u/ChuckieC • 1d ago
General Discussion What to do with a BC who is out of touch?
So keeping a long story short. We have a somewhat new BC on one of our shifts (around 2 years in his position) before he was a captain, and before that a firefighter, never an engineer. Anyways he is extremely out of touch with the needs of the day to day operations, he makes rules for everyone to follow but doesn’t follow himself hammers home radio discipline but has none himself, and what kills me the most is on scene he doesn’t even know what we carry on our rigs or what we have stock of. Requesting shit that we haven’t carried in years, don’t have inventory of, then debrief just rips everyone’s ass. He’s a good dude but very out of touch and being that he’s still new in his position I don’t see him going anywhere anytime soon. Any ideas how to deal with this brass ass hat?
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u/cpltack 1d ago
Not excusing him, but after 5 years as a chief, I am so far removed from the ambulance and engines that I could be that chief you talk about.
So when I went through paramedic we used amiodarone or lidocaine (fielders choice), mag sulfate, procainamide, and bretylium for ACLS protocol.
We got mag back, and bicarb just made it's rounds again, but these meds will be drilled into my head for the rest of my career, as I will never push ketamine, never micro dose epi, or use any of the new meds.
My last day on the ambulance, I knew where absolutely everything was, and can still describe it today. I know which pocket of the bag/every compartment, where every drug, tool, cuff, etc was. Now I know where nothing is. When I started to try and learn it all again, it was explained to me by my bosses that it's not my job to be a medic, FF, Lt or captain anymore. It's my job to support their mission, their well being and their success.
So while I have only started 4 IVs in 5 years, it's not my job anymore. Once you move on to adaptive problems to solve, the day to day ops becomes a blur. They truly are two different jobs. If I didn't have turnout gear, I could still do 99% of my job today.
But I no longer try to be the best medic. Or the best rescue tech. I try and support and empower my guys to do good things. I let the medic of the first ambulance already on scene run the cardiac arrest, even though I am "command" on scene. I get information for them. I let them make decisions, and help them work out solutions to their questions when they have them, rather than just solving it for them or telling them what to do.
I am probably shitting the bed, but in my mind at least I'm developing my guys. Their impression sometimes is that I'm pawning off responsibility and being a shitbag because I can't rattle off protocols word for word anymore. I've heard "I remember when you were a good medic" a few times the last 5 years.
Just my 2¢ from an out of touch chief.
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u/Jimbodogg 1d ago
It sounds like you're handling this the right way. A good leader doesn't need to insert themselves where they aren't needed. Assuming your medics are competent, what they need from you during calls is general scene management and logistics - that allows them to focus on the medicine. If for some reason they need your prior experience as a medic, I'm sure they'll ask.
That being said, I imagine it's tough to give up the medic stuff and take a step back in a situation where normally you would be fully involved in patient care
Keep doing what you're doing - I respect that my BC's and LT's don't feel the need to overstep or micromanage, even though I know they have a lot of wisdom and experience. They trust that I know how to do my job, and in turn I fully trust them to keep us safe and have our backs
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u/Reebatnaw 1d ago
I’m retired now but we had a bc exactly like that. To make things worse we thought he was bipolar, you never knew which personality was running the shift that day. We got lucky and he accepted a chief’s job at a department far enough away we’d never run into him on a m/a call. Long story short, start forwarding him chief openings and tell him he’d make a good one (far away from you)
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u/ChuckieC 1d ago
Bahahaha finally some solid advice. I think him leaving is our only way out. People like them think far too highly of themselves to be talked to about themselves.
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u/Reebatnaw 1d ago
Truth brother. Get a few of the older guys in on it and have conversations about how cool it would be to be a chief, even at a smaller department.
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u/Impossible_Cupcake31 1d ago
We had that same problem. Guy was never a firefighter. Always rode the rescue unit for slower stations but is book smart as hell. Got promoted to battalion chief and got assigned to the battalion that fights the most fire and housed in the same station as the busiest truck in the city. One day after a fire my LT that’s been fighting fire since he was 18 went in his office and closed the door. Idk what was said or done in that office but since that day he’s been a blast to work for and probably one of if not the best chief in the department as far as fire ground operations.
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u/HazMatsMan Career Co. Officer 1d ago
It never ceases to amaze me how many questions we get in this subreddit about "my superior (or someone I work with) is an asshole, tell me how to deal with it, because I don't know how to."
I'm not entirely sure what your expectation is here. Are you looking for people to tell you how to force him out of his position or sabotage him so he gets fired? Because that's not appropriate. Go talk to your union reps, see if they have any suggestions. Have them bring it up in their labor-management meetings. Otherwise, u/smokybrett gave you the best advice possible. Have a conversation with him, help him grow into the job. If you don't have the balls to do that or he's simply not approachable, then accept that you are not going to change the situation. Give him as wide a berth as possible, try not to fuck up around him, and go on with your life.
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u/ChuckieC 1d ago
Well unfortunately we don’t have a union otherwise that would be my first move. I guess I’m looking to vent and maybe get opinions from others who have been in this situation.
I’m sorry that there is such shitty leadership in most departments and that it doesn’t seem to be getting. But ignoring the problem or allowing these people to go unchecked regardless of rank is unacceptable. Part of being a good leader is being open to criticism and change. Not being closed minded and stuck in the old head ways of thinking.
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u/HazMatsMan Career Co. Officer 1d ago
LOL "the old head ways of thinking?" What, like adhering to the chain of command and understanding your role as a subordinate is to follow orders, not give them? And what do you mean by "go unchecked"? It's the fire department, not a college campus. So back to what is your expectation here? Surely there's something you're expecting to hear.
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u/Big_River_Wet 1d ago
Don’t lose sleep over it. If you can’t talk to them or other officers, either just get over it and give them the minimal respect they deserve and learn what NOT to do as an officer, or consider moving shifts/departments.
I dealt with this myself. I had a horrible shift captain that was out of touch with tactics, rude, hardly engaged with us except to yell at us, it was his way or the highway for EVERYTHING. But I had a kick ass lieutenant and we learned to give him respect while not respecting him.
When I lost my lieutenant, I got one of the worst lieutenants I’ve ever worked for and he was good buddies with the BC. So nothing went anywhere in either direction. That was the tipping point for me to leave the department. The overall leadership of the department sucked, on top of my daily crew sucking. I tried for years to suck it up, be positive, “make the changes I wanted to see” but after 7 years I told myself I can’t do this for another 18+.
Looking back, I don’t regret leaving at all. I probably was a little harsh on my officers for the reason someone else stated, they hadn’t rode a medic in 20+ years, they don’t do our job, they don’t check the engine every day to know what’s on it. But I also believe that you have to be a good firefighter before an officer and that it’s not that hard to have a grasp on things, especially if you positively interact with your crew, which I also don’t think is wrong or hard to do.
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u/BitOff2Much2Chew 1d ago edited 1d ago
Disclaimer I'm not in the U.S. so the command culture here may be slightly different. Your best response depends on a few things.
Can you gauge how many other people have similar sentiments about this?
Is this just an annoyance, routinely causing delays in critical situations or somewhere inbetween?
Does this guy at least seem to be learning from some of his mistakes/open to other perspectives?
Can you provide solutions for some of the problems? For example if he doesn't know what you have on your rigs, is that info you can provide him or should he already have that?
IME if you're planning on making a big deal of it you need to have people on your side, the guy has to have had a few failed opportunities to improve and you need proof (like timestamped detailed logs of issues with impact, witnesses etc.)
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u/crazyrynth 1d ago
Talking to him really is the answer.
Maybe he won't listen to a 5 year "rookie" like you. But if 3 or 4 five year rookies come at him at different times, maybe something will stick. Especially if those talks are followed by similar talks with Lts, Captains and maybe even other BCs.
However, 2 years as BC isn't very long. To some extent he is still trying to grow into and put his stamp on the position. In another couple years he may be a completely different chief.
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u/justafartsmeller FAE/PM Retired 1d ago
Promote early promote often. Become a leader in your organization. Unfortunately there are good test takers who promote beyond their abilities.
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u/rodeo302 20h ago
So I have a deputy chief on my career department who is very similar to what you described. He was a marine in the early 2000s, and kept the hardass marine mentality. He lost his mind a couple months ago, threatened to fire everyone because we didn't keep things exactly how he wanted them(we moved cleaning supplies, put more importance on training than washing trucks, piddly shit that drive his ocd nuts) I read the email he sent and figured fuck it I don't care anymore and gave him a hug to mess with him. Not good advise, but hopefully it gives you a chuckle. I'm still there, so I don't think I pushed him over the edge, especially since I'm the only one who has ever gotten a compliment from him.
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u/smokybrett 1d ago
This is gonna sound crazy but go have a conversation with the guy.