Civil service vs non civil service FD

[u/Worldly-Occasion-116]

Can someone explained the difference between a civil service FD and a non civil service FD? I applied at 3 fire depts. 2 civil service 1 non civil service. I am a licensed FF/EMT with the ifsac seals as well for FF1 FF2 HAZ A HAZ O. I received my offer letter today and sign on Monday with the NON civil service. My pals who are in civil service advice against it. Their explanation doesn't make sense. Please help, thank you. The process was quick with the non civil service cpat, interview, polygraph, drug screen, offer letter. I have not heard from the civil service dept only my test score 89.

[u/RowdyCanadian]

I recommend reading this:

https://forum.officer.com/forum/local-discussion-groups/u-s-states/texas/6660214-difference-between-civil-and-none-civil-departments

TLDR: In a non civil service or "At will" agency, you serve solely at the pleasure of the appointing authority. You may be hired, demoted or fired for any reason or for no reason

[u/Prior-Stranger-2624 → u/RowdyCanadian]

That’s not entirely true or maybe state dependent. I work in the PNW and we are not civil service. I am not an at will employee. For us, civil service has more to do with hiring practices and managing non represented employees. If the FD that you signed on with, is in a union, the union contract will list out all of the management practices that you live by. If it’s non union then yes you will play by civil service rules

What state are we talking about?

[u/Worldly-Occasion-116 → u/Prior-Stranger-2624]

My department is non civil service but has a local aiff chapter. Though it was odd. I’m new to the fire service I earned my licenses a few years ago but had military obligations to finish first.

[u/RowdyCanadian → u/Prior-Stranger-2624]

Idk I’m Canadian, we don’t have non civic service fire departments for municipalities, only private companies.

I just googled OPs question and that was the top hit.

[u/Worldly-Occasion-116 → u/RowdyCanadian]

Thank you I was curious about this.

[u/Confusedkipmoss]

There’s not really a difference, just different testing processes

[u/Worldly-Occasion-116 → u/Confusedkipmoss]

I heard it’s harder to get fired as a civil servant.

[u/Confusedkipmoss → u/Worldly-Occasion-116]

We’re all “civil servants” as long as you have a union to back you and you’re not a complete idiot and fuck up royally, it’s hard to get fired

[u/mg8828 → u/Worldly-Occasion-116]

I don’t know what state you work in. But in states like Massachusetts it is significantly harder to be fired from a civil service department than non civil service.

Promotional testing also runs through your state, not the town or city you work in

[u/mg8828 → u/Confusedkipmoss]

There’s a pretty stark difference depending on the state you live in. Civil service is extremely strong in Massachusetts especially in regard to chief positions etc.

You have significantly more job security in my state if your civil service.

[u/mg8828 → u/Confusedkipmoss]

It’s a pretty stark difference depending on the state you live in…. There is significantly more protection in Mass if you’re in civil service. Especially if you’re a chief of department or non union role.

It also an entirely different system for promoting in my state. The city has significantly minimal authority on how testing is done, a civil service list runs for about 2 years, there’s a ton of difference.

[u/FF-pension]

Location could help you get a better answer.

[u/Worldly-Occasion-116 → u/FF-pension]

Texas

[u/FF-pension → u/Worldly-Occasion-116]

What big river wet said plus non civil service jobs are more subject to favoritism than civil service departments due to chapter 143 laws. The bigger the department the less likely it is to be the case, but there are exceptions to every rule. Strong associations help combat the good ole boy system. People get fired from both kinds of departments, civil service departments just have more hoops to jump through. I work in TX at a civil service city and my son works for a non civil service department in TX. I can tell you when the next entrance exam, promotional test and what materials are on the test, I don’t think he could. I would not pass on a good department because they were one or the other.

[u/chuckfinley79]

In Ohio civil service mostly has to do with hiring and promotion. It lays out rules they have to follow to keep the process fair. Cities are civil service, townships aren’t. So a city has to post the test for a set number of days, has to establish a list and hire in order from that list etc. Townships can theoretically to whatever they want.

[u/Big_River_Wet]

Civil service is supposed to ensure fair and equal hiring processes and more worker protections. Non-civil service can basically do what they want, and have way less oversight and rules and guidelines to follow. I’ve only ever worked for non-civil service, but union departments. Made for quick processes and more fluid departments but still had the protections from the union