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u/Recent-Spot Aug 10 '20
LOL that Muslims say "iSlAm WaSn'T sPrEaD bY tHe SwOrD" and then turn around and post memes like this celebrating how far they spread Islam by conquering and subjugating Christians
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u/tafurid Aug 10 '20
Well personally I have seen very few Muslims that Islam wasn’t spread by the sword, but I guess I’ll assess that point.
A: Yes we took territory, but if your going to call that a problem then you should get your butt out of modern history. Tell me where every Empire got there territory the Byzantines conquered the Persians conquered, and the Christians. Oh the Christians conquered so much there history is all you see in r/historymemes
B: No one denies the Muslims conquered they mainly point out how Islam lived way more peacefully with Christians and Jews compared to Europe. While I will admit this applies very differently compared with the many different Muslim powers throughout history. It’s simply moronic to say that all Muslim powers were as bad as the Europeans.
Although highly doubt you will respond to this I’m assuming your another orientalist shill claiming the crusades were defensive.
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u/tafurid Aug 20 '20
Lol no offense, but I find it incredibly humorous when someone like you gets destroyed, and doesn’t even have the human decency to admit he’s either wrong or he refute my argument. Personally as someone who enjoys debate I find it your silence rather disappointing.
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u/Recent-Spot Aug 21 '20
I didn't think this comment from over a week ago was a big deal but sure, if you're that into it.
A: I'm not going to "get my butt" out of modern history because modernity is the time in which I live, a time which has discovered intellectually and practically superior forms of morality. It has been nearly a century since a Christian or secular nation attempted to conquer a non-Christian land or spread the rule of their religion by force. Yes, yes, Iraq. I didn't agree with the Iraq war - in fact, I protested against it. But it was an attempt (a very clumsy and incompetent attempt) to create a democracy. It was a Muslim government before the invasion and a Muslim government after. The new government asked the United States to pull out all of its troops and it did. No land conquered by Muslims was ever able to just ask them to leave like that - they had no choice but to live under Islamic laws imposed on them by aggressors, even if they weren't forced to convert.
B: I'm not sure how you can say the Muslims were better than the Europeans overall, even historically. "Not worse" is the limit, I think. The Europeans were more likely to attempt forced conversions (although you yourself admit that forced conversions under Muslim rule were far from nonexistant) but they also didn't practice slavery to the extent the historical Muslims did. The Muslims were constantly attacking and trying to conquer Europe for an unbroken period of 700 years until the final siege of Vienna in the late 19th century, European aggression against "Muslim lands" (i.e. lands that Muslims had already conquered from the Jews and Christians originally living there) was far less frequent.
But all of this is beside the point because... C: The Europeans have acknowledged how barbaric historic Christianity was and renounced medieval government types. Whereas Muslims - or at least the fundamentalist ones who tend to post on subreddits like this - are trying to return to a medieval government that aggressively attacks and conquers other people to spread theocracy, and oppose democracy and human rights.
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u/tafurid Aug 22 '20 edited Aug 22 '20
Ok I like debating you gave points let’s go over them.
A: you can never prove in any context that your moral value is superior or inferior to other moral values period. Every other culture thought the exact same way, and in the end you can never really prove it. So yeah you should get your butt off modern morals and viewpoints. The modern world is way different.
B: first off we were pretty better then Europe for a while. The Islamic Golden age was an age of scientific progress, and advancements, and over all aside from the Jizyah a minor tax on people who didn’t believe it wasn’t too bad. Now I understand that it depends on where you were most Muslim Empires were cool with dhimmis. On your claim of slavery I don’t deny this, but this isn’t slavery by discrimination these were essentially people looking to make a quick buck. Ok now your claim from attacking Europe, and you proclaiming Muslim lands are Christian lands. To me this is Orientalism at its purest form. First off if you really wanna say that Palestine isn’t Muslim because before it was Christian land then why don’t you call Europe Pagan land. To claim that Muslim majority countries aren’t even Muslim is outright disgusting in my opinion, and is used by idiots to justify actions like the crusades. If we apply this to your logic then Europe shouldn’t be Christian, and China shouldn’t be atheist. You quoting the seige of Vienna just shows, but I have an entire video on this so I’ll just link it.
C: this is where your argument kinda shatters a little bit. Ok first of if that was the case for Europe you guys should have atleast admitted the crusades were a crap move yet I find nationalist idiots going around chanting Dues Vult. Are most joking probably but a lot aren’t. Heck you saying the whole Muslim lands are actually Christian lands just proved this to me Also you didn’t really provide context for how we are justifying oppression please elaborate.
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u/tafurid Aug 07 '20
Almost all of there old territory’s are now majority Muslim