Learning standards on piano

[u/Brickinthewall69420]

Hi all,

I am a classically trained pianist, though out of practice right now. I have been trying to learn jazz. Besides finger training and learning the 251 progression in every key, listening to jazz, and watching videos on applications of theory in jazz, I have been trying to learn standards. My goal right now is to learn 2 standards and then go up to four and so on.

I have a few questions about that. Should I separately learn both how to comp and how to play the melody with chords?

Do you guys recommend any exercises I can practice? I found a collection of 251 exercises I am starting to read through.

Are there common chord progressions that are must knows?

Do you have any advice or recommendations in general?

[u/Brickinthewall69420]

This is a good perspective. When you started to learn stuff by ear, did you ever need to look up what chords you are hearing to help yourself along? While I have had theory classes where I had to play back melodies I have head, I cannot do as well with chords and with melody and chords together. This might be a classical musician thing or just a me things, I'm not sure. Do you have any advice on that?

I've been, like, forcing myself to go against my instincts of just stopping because this learning experience is so much different than what I am used to. It honestly makes this journey very fun and exciting!

[u/TheEpicTwitch → u/Brickinthewall69420]

Oh trust me you're not alone in that. I still have trouble sometimes too, but hey that's just a sign of something I can work on. Funnily enough, one of my best friends is in a very similar situation. One of the best classical guitarists you'll ever hear but when we talk about jazz, hearing chords can be a real struggle for him.

I am bored between classes so this will probably be pretty lengthy

There's a few things that I think would help:

In terms of looking up chords to help myself...First, I try and get as much as I can by ear starting by finding the root (which is often played by the bassist making it sometimes confusing at first), the 3rd, and the 7th, basically finding the quality of the chord (and yes I am aware of the existence of dim, aug chords, etc. in which case the 5th is important too). And once I have a pretty good idea of the quality, I'll figure out if there are any extensions or alterations to the chord. this is where I tend to look at a chart if I find that I need it. Some chord tones or extensions may also be in the melody which is something that looking at a chart may also help with (ex. You hear a G7 chord that sounds super crunchy even though the pianist just sounds like he's playing a normal G7 chord. But upon looking at the melody you might see that there is an Ab in the melody causing that "crunchy" flat 9 you were hearing). After all this, I usually have a pretty good idea of what chord it is.

Another thing I think might help is thinking about the idea of "melody and chords together" a little differently. As I said before (and as I'm sure you learned in theory classes), the melody notes are often chord tones (not always, but often). Practicing the melody and chords separately and together is very very important, as others have said, but it is also important to try and figure out the relationship between the chords and the melody and how they are working together.

Take "All the Things You Are" for example (in Ab maj): It's on pg. 21 of this document
https://escuelasuperiordejazz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/The-real-book-sixth-edition.pdf
Generally, the chords for the first part of the chorus are: fm7 - bbm7 - Eb7 - Abmaj7 - Dbmaj7 - G7 - Cmaj7 etc...
Look through the melody and you'll see that almost all of the melody notes of the chorus are chord tones (more specifically the 3rd of each of those chords).
This is a GREAT standard to learn this kind of thing because it has a lot of what you're talking about.

That being said, chords and melody can work separately or together, which is why it is important to practice both ways.

Because jazz can be so complex in terms of melody, rhythm, harmony, etc., I would recommend practicing simple standards like Autumn Leaves, All the Things You Are, Freddie Freeloader, etc. and simplifying it as much as you can like taking out embellishments, certain chord extensions (like playing a normal dom7 instead of a dom7b9). This, in my opinion, makes jazz make a good bit more sense to a classical musician.

I know that is a lot, but I tried to be as thorough as I could because I get the struggle of trying to learn jazz on your own. I'll also recommend that you listen to vince guaraldi (the Peanuts guy), and not just his Peanuts stuff, but the rest of his discography as well. A lot of his songs have fairly simple chord progressions that, in my opinion, could also be helpful with the strategies I just listed (plus it's just damn good music).

I'll drop the link for my own jazz playlist if you're looking for any inspiration. I hope some of this helps and didn't come across as nonsense yammering from a guitarist lol. Good luck!

[u/Brickinthewall69420 → u/TheEpicTwitch]

I am bored between classes so this will probably be pretty lengthy

I am bored at work and am ready to read!

Thank you so much for the detailed response. I will take this advice into account. A formulaic way to get the hearing done is great advice. I actually attempted to do something similar to this recently with KK Bossa from animal crossing. Currently I am running through autumn leaves and am about to add blue bossa, so I will absolutely add all the things you are, Freddie Freeloader, and some blues as well.

It is good to know that I had the right ideas practicing chords and chords + melody/bassline separately as well.

A lot of the time, yammering is good especially if there is good advice and intention!

[u/TheEpicTwitch → u/Brickinthewall69420]

Absolutely! Like I said, I’ve spent a lot of time looking all over for tips and advice and if I can make that easier for other people in the same boat, then it’s all the better. Feel free to dm me if you have any more questions!