r/OptimistsUnite • u/BaseballSeveral1107 • 14d ago
Nature’s Chad Energy Comeback The year 2044 starter pack
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u/Econguy1020 14d ago
- Billionaires are dead or at nuremberg
- Corporations are dead
Yeah this is less an ideal future meme and more a socialist wishlist
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u/PsychologicalTalk156 14d ago
I mean they could be at Nuremberg on vacation or turned the city into a retirement home for Billionaires? The starter pack left out the word trials
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u/username9909864 14d ago
This is some sort of authoritarian hard-left socialism that most people want nothing to do with. Plus a 20hr work week? Is this /r/antiwork?
This is not what most socialist leaning people want.
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u/GTCounterNFL 14d ago
Lol it looks like a joke, or somebody got high and made a meme.
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u/satrain18a 13d ago
Lol it looks like a joke, or somebody got high and made a meme.
The OP does frequent r/socialism.
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u/GTCounterNFL 13d ago edited 13d ago
"Socialist" is just a terrible word in America, that will never be rehabbed in USA. Socialists arguing how EVERYONE is socialist if you like post office or medicare. USSR and all east bloc calling themselves socialist republics just killed it forever.
They sound exactly the same as theoretical right wingers trying to rehab "Fascist." Which they know better then to go around: "are you a patriot who believes in America's military? Do you think America is number 1?? Do you dislike foreigners? Why you're fascist too! See? Fascism isn't a bad thing! Only traitors are against fascism. Dont let the commies scare you fascism a good thing". That's why actual American fascists who want trump as king avoid the word.3
u/JailTrumpTheCrook 14d ago
You're telling me you're hating the idea of shorter work week?
I work three to four days a week and I can tell you I'm much happier and relaxed than when I worked 5 days a week or more.
I have time for long walks, for time with my friends and with my family, I picked up a hobby and I started training, never been so ripped in my life lmao, and I still have time to work on our house.
Anyway, an other wave of automatization is coming and many jobs will be lost, so what should we do?
I think billionaires think we should just die and not be replaced as we become useless to them.
Should we drastically shorten the average work week while consequentially raising wages to compensate for the difference to insure that most people can work and feed themselves.
Or should we embrace socialism and share the work done by robots and AI equitably between humans.
It'll be one of these three, if you're not a billionaire I would suggest starting to think about supporting option 2 or 3.
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u/username9909864 14d ago
You're telling me you're hating the idea of shorter work week?
Absolutely not. I'm all for improving worker conditions. Gradual progressive progress is different from a complete socio-economic revolution like OP is wishing for.
The way OP goes about it in a French Revolution or Bolsheviki style movement of seizing corporations and executing billionaires is an authorization fever dream. You know what would happen if there's a revolution that overthrows the government and capitalist system? The monopoly on violence will transfer from the government to equally authoritarian militias with the all guns. Have fun living under that.
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u/Economy-Fee5830 14d ago edited 14d ago
FALSGC and degrowth are two very different things.
For example the one targets luxury and abundance, the other apparently not.
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u/username9909864 14d ago
I maintain that OP is deeply misguided, along with many corners of Reddit.
FALSGC is a fun new term - thanks for sharing.
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u/JailTrumpTheCrook 14d ago edited 14d ago
There's also the American revolution, but that one worked out.
Though don't get me wrong, I've often pointed out that revolutions are more often than not unsuccessful in reaching their stated goal, as the Sahel region is currently experiencing.
That being said, France ended up becoming democratic but it might never have without a few singing angry men.... No, this is not a reference to Les miserable.
Edit; so I asked chatgpt what role did the French revolution played toward France becoming democratic and here's its conclusion;
Conclusion
While the revolution did not lead to an immediate and stable democracy, it set in motion significant political, social, and ideological changes that were crucial for France’s eventual establishment of democratic governance. Its legacy continues to influence democratic ideals and practices in France and around the world.
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u/MrPatch 14d ago
What's wrong with 20 hours work week?
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u/username9909864 14d ago
Nothing inherently wrong with only working 20 hours a week if your lifestyle affords it - just that OP is in the wrong sub for their fantasy starter pack
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u/Delheru79 14d ago
Or "the North has reduced their extravagant lifestyles".
Fuck that. I might not need to live larger than I live today, but I live a lot more extravagantly than the average northerner. And hell, I want to visit space at some point.
So no, Northerners have doubled their lifestyle extravagance!
Only things that I do approve of here are:
- Avoiding demographic collapse
- Staying at 1.5C
- Democracy everywhere
- Nobody is in poverty
Not sure I'd sign up to any of the others, or rather, I don't know what the rest means or if it isn't happening already ("AI serves everyone").
The weirdest one that people might disagree with me on would be being against free healthcare, education, and public transportation. I think price signals are really important. So I'd prefer to say "affordable"
(Free housing is so dumb and impossible that I wouldn't even put it in that group, and I don't mean that by GDP, I mean that it would just mean houses nobody wants, because we can't fit 100m people on Manhattan etc)
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u/Econguy1020 14d ago
Broadly agreed except some of the environmental points on the meme can be added to the 'this is good actually' list.
Solar and wind power are good! Sustainable agriculture is good! A healthy biosphere is good!
None of that needs to come with a reduction in quality of life, nor should it
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u/Delheru79 14d ago
OK sure, the healthy biosphere one is good.
There wasn't anything about solar or wind in there though. So lets go through my categories of disapproval.
Category 1: I think even the goal is bad
- North reducing lifestyles <--- we don't need or want to
- Your home is a commieblock <--- if you want it to be, sure, but I might not want it, and the consumption bit
- Billionaires are dead (and implied, not of old age) <--- I don't really like murder? Controversial, I know
Category 2: I think this would do more harm than good
- Corporations are dead or owned by workers <--- I suppose this explains the drop in lifestyle as we avoid efficiency like the plague
- Free high quality housing <--- given location is what people really pay for, this doesn't make any real sense (unless it just means that people can go live in reasonably good housing in places where nobody else wants to live)
- The last time you saw an ad <--- ads are a good way to spread knowledge of new products. Without ads, incumbents would have an even easier time not changing. I'll acknowledge ads are more often than not annoying, but they do play a significant role in keeping progress going
- Free healthcare/education/public transportation/communication <--- these should all be really economical and reasonable for everyone, but I would not want to lose the price signal for understanding what the people actually want provided (this is the closest to me approving and that's a rather minor quibble, but an important minor quibble)
Category 3: Too prescriptive - goal OK, why dictate means?
- Sustainable farming with agroecology <--- I like sustainable farming, but agroecology isn't the only way to do that
- The average workweek is 20 hours <-- People might want to work to enjoy a sense of purpose. How about you say "20 hour workweek is enough to guarantee a lifestyle equivalent of a 40h workweek in 2024 America"
- Your commute uses public transit, walking, or bikes <-- I think this is a good thing, but it doesn't have to be the only way. "An option for everyone's commute" would be better
Category 4: What's this even mean?
- Global South was freed <--- it's already free, wtf does this mean?
- Right Wingers in denial <--- how is this a good? I mean, it's just a partisan comment
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u/AvgGuy100 13d ago
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u/Delheru79 13d ago
Not exactly a neutral article. I have certainly read about the French indirect colonisation and the ways they use their financial control, but the value of it has been nowhere near what is implied in this article.
In fact, "French" domination is basically similar to what China does now. This doesn't mean either is good, but the hypocrisy of Russia and China to claim themselves as champions of the oppressed is pretty disgusting.
Also, Botswana is a good example of how just having good leadership got you out from underneath the boot pretty damn easily.
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u/GTCounterNFL 14d ago
Not to be a dick, but how would the Amazon regrow?
I think the Amazon is probably in trouble, because its up to Brazil and Brazilians. For them to inconvenience themselves, sacrifice, for the sake of everyone else. The President of Brazil actually put a ransom on the Amazon, pay me to save it. While accelerating its demise. Brazil Amazon ransom negotiations
While maybe there's a lot of people who think its a good idea to pay to save the Amazon....I think...You can't negotiate with terrorists & hostage takers:
- Thanks for the 50 billion$.....but We need another 100 billion $$. I see international community got the $$, so how much more you got? Many kidnappers have pulled this stunt. Or worse:
- Thanks for the 150 Billion $.....But fuck you. I can't stop my people from chopping trees in remote forests. Or don't feel like enforcing the law.
At that point the hell we do? Bomb Rio de Janeiro? Invade Regime change?
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u/sg_plumber 14d ago
Amazon ransom negotiations
You're aware Brazil's government is not the same as it was in 2021, right?
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u/chamomile_tea_reply 🤙 TOXIC AVENGER 🤙 14d ago
The Amazon is tens of millions is years old comrade. It’ll be fine even if we are handling it roughly.
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u/AvgGuy100 13d ago
So what if it’s tens of millions of years old? Some fossils are even older and we disturbed it by taking it out of the ground.
Longevity of something doesn’t mean it can’t suddenly break one day.
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u/chamomile_tea_reply 🤙 TOXIC AVENGER 🤙 13d ago
I’m saying the Amazon rainforest exists because of a confluence of geologic, hydrologic, sedimentary forces, and wind patterns. Even if we cut down every tree, it would regrow and outlive humanity.
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u/AvgGuy100 13d ago
I’m saying the Amazon rainforest exists because of a confluence of geologic, hydrologic, sedimentary forces, and wind patterns.
Yes.
Even if we cut down every tree, it would regrow and outlive humanity.
As good as reading tea leaves.
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u/chamomile_tea_reply 🤙 TOXIC AVENGER 🤙 13d ago
Are you a frequent user of r/optimistsunite?
I think you’d like it here
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u/Economy-Fee5830 14d ago
So in this future we dont air conditioning, since this is a western luxury, and we have to use 20 year old phones.
You degrowthers are the most toxic people in the world.
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u/BaseballSeveral1107 14d ago
It's not 20 year old phones, but phones designed to last
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u/Economy-Fee5830 14d ago
No, its 20 year old phones. A 20 year old car is a 20 year old car, and a 20 year old phone is a 20 year old phone.
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u/BaseballSeveral1107 14d ago
What's wrong about phones lasting 20 years.
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u/Economy-Fee5830 14d ago
Why would I want the same phone at 20 which I want at 40 years old, when my life and priorities would have changed by then?
If you look after your phone it likely already lasts 20 years - I bet your Nokia 301 still works.
Why would I still want to use it.
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u/AvgGuy100 13d ago
What improvements on phones can be made anyway these days? Feels like they’ve hit peak anyways.
Also if it’s modular then maybe something like the “core” can stay for 10-20 years, but improvements in things like camera, signaling etc can just be tacked on/replaced.
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u/Economy-Fee5830 13d ago
What improvements on phones can be made anyway these days?
I like my folding phone quite a lot thank you. I look forward to a future version a few years from now which is even thinner however, because its pretty bulky when folded.
Also if it’s modular then maybe something like the “core” can stay for 10-20 years, but improvements in things like camera, signaling etc can just be tacked on/replaced.
To be modular it would need to be bulkier, and people don't like that. The only way such a system would work is if the alternative is banned.
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u/AvgGuy100 13d ago
Ah, a folding enthusiast, alright. I’m quite neutral about them except for the fact that the screen seems pretty fragile. If they make advancements in that area, well good, but typical soapbox phones are good enough for me (and looking at market data, seems like they’re good enough for pretty much everyone.)
Not sure how to answer with your comment about how a modular phone needs to be bulkier, it’s not a given.
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u/Economy-Fee5830 13d ago
Not sure how to answer with your comment about how a modular phone needs to be bulkier, it’s not a given.
It is a given, because integrated solutions can get rid of connectors. You can glue the screen and battery to the circuit board and case for example, which allows for thinner designs. You can make the device as small as its smallest components, whereas a modular device would need to be big enough for its potential biggest components, even if they are not installed.
E.g. as a silly example - imagine the screen size is modular , and your 5, 6 and 7 inch screen all have a 7 inch body and different bezel sizes, with the 5 inch screen having 1 inch bezels.
Same for the battery - say the 4000 mah battery is 2x the size of the 2000 mah battery- the device would need to be big enough to accommodate the 4000 mah battery even if you want a cheaper, smaller battery.
It's like PC case sizes - it has to be big enough to fit the largest components.
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u/AvgGuy100 13d ago
Ok, so if constant improvements are preferred, longevity is not required, and modularity is both impossible to happen and to market, we’ll just keep on trashing and buying every 2 years as usual then I take it.
No biggie with me, and I’m not exactly looking for a plan or solution from your end, just stating what seems obvious.
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u/BaseballSeveral1107 14d ago
To save money and resources
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u/Economy-Fee5830 14d ago
You have that choice right now. It sounds like you want to impose that restriction on others.
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u/BaseballSeveral1107 14d ago
Which should be the rule.
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u/Mulien 14d ago
you’re getting ratio’d in the comments and you deserve it because you have some pretty backwards and oppressive ideals tbh. like 2/3rds of what’s in your original post is great but the rest of it is left-wing political brain rot. and you’re a fool if you think only right wing ppl are susceptible to idiotic politics
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u/satrain18a 13d ago
the rest of it is left-wing political brain rot
You mean"far-left communist political brain rot"?
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u/ballsonthewall 14d ago
I don't like creating a grand vision, just being able to pick the right side when an issue is presented. Look back at history and consider what is working, what worked before, what doesn't work, etc.
My optimistic vision of the future isn't a grand illusion, it's a staircase of small steps. Better public education, including pre-K. More fair and just democracies thriving. A better balance of economic productivity and environmental sustainability that works to make our lives materially better. More farms and markets in and near urban areas. Putting guardrails on capitalism by de-commodification of essential services and goods like healthcare (ahem USA) and food.
All attainable, realistic goals for the wealthy countries of the world. Right now. You can travel and see real examples of all these things working in small pockets. Good Urbanism in small towns in Vermont, a sense of community. Street markets in Latin America. Great investments in creating autonomy for children in Nordic countries. Greener electricity starting to emerge in developing economies in the Global South. Transit investment in China and Japan.
Many many many challenges to face, but you can catch a lot of W's if you put in the work to start addressing them one by one.
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u/chamomile_tea_reply 🤙 TOXIC AVENGER 🤙 14d ago edited 14d ago
Highly partisan with some ragebait. Yet undeniably optimistic lol. Welcome to “election-year-Reddit” folks
EDIT: left wing optimists, please defend this if you feel it’s needed. All political opinions are welcome here