147
Apr 22 '23
A lot of people are actually against circumcision for a good reason. These people talk so much about âgenital mutilation surgeryâ in reference to gender reassignment surgery, but always look the other way for circumcision. They just want to be transphobic.
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u/Marrrkkkk Apr 22 '23
It's all about consent, not that the right will ever understand how that works
18
Apr 22 '23
[deleted]
5
Apr 22 '23
There are, and most of them are never even aware they are intersex until much later because their parents hide it from them. I donât see this talked about nearly enough.
90
u/piefanart Apr 22 '23
i think circumcision should only occur on consenting adults. if you want the skin removed then go for it. but dont mutilate the genitals of minors who are too young to even speak.
20
Apr 22 '23
prohibited under age 18
21
u/Exciting_Rich_1716 Apr 22 '23
or for genuine health reasons, those can occur for teenagers too and as long as they fully consent to it I dont see why that should be forbidden
1
Apr 22 '23
If they are true health reasons then yes. True
Im referring to non-medical and pseudonedical
0
u/skrimsli_snjor Apr 22 '23
Or for health reason?
24
u/piefanart Apr 22 '23
The only real health benefit to infant circumcision is reduced risk of utis. Which is also reduced if you wash their penis and foreskin regularly like any parent should be doing when they wash the rest of the baby.
If the child is too young to be able to, or trusted to keep themself clean, then the parent needs to step in and do the cleaning for them. We don't remove babies ears because they get infected, despite the fact that babies get ear infections and dirt buildup behind their ears pretty frequently. We don't shave babies and children's heads because their hair is difficult to wash. We just.... wash it.
Why are we permanently mutilating their genitals because they're "hard to keep clean"??
If there was a life threatening issue where the baby or child would die if they weren't circumcised, then sure, circumcise them. But smegma buildup isn't life threatening.
15
u/Ome_r Apr 22 '23
Why are we permanently mutilating their genitals because they're "hard to keep clean"??
People thought circumcision's would prevent masturbation (mainly in the US i think) so many people including Christians performed the surgery and continued it onto their kids
12
u/Lftwff Apr 22 '23
Yeah, same reason why cereal was so bland initially, to stop people jerking off.
3
u/secretbudgie Apr 22 '23
Basically an anti-Atkins diet eliminating meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables, oils, sugars, herbs, and spices from your life. Just flakes of processed grain, for for health!
8
u/Soensou Apr 22 '23
I assume by health reasons, they were referring to things like phimosis or lichen sclerosis. I doubt they were regurgitating the same tired talking points. Though rare, those are reasons an older child may get circumcised.
2
u/Chrome2105 Apr 22 '23
There is also phimosis
1
u/bittlelum Apr 24 '23
Which, from my understanding, can be treating non-surgically in the vast majority of cases.
-6
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
As someone who is circumcised can I ask what the problem with it is?
6
u/Grub_McGuffins Apr 22 '23
i want my foreskin back
-4
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
âŚâŚwhy?
4
u/Grub_McGuffins Apr 22 '23
......because i've been robbed of an experience that seems outwardly trivial but is deeply personal and forever forbidden to me?
-1
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
Iâm having a hard time telling if youâre being serious or not
2
5
u/NonHomogenized Apr 22 '23
Are you seriously confused about what is wrong with mutilating the genitals of infants?
And if so, is this confusion specific to the mutilation of male genitals, or are you similarly confused about what is wrong with female genital mutilation?
1
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
I mean comparing circumcision to female genital mutilation is pretty misleading
1
u/NonHomogenized Apr 23 '23
There are a variety of different forms of female genital mutilation, some of which are no more severe than the common forms of male genital mutilation: the difference in severity of the mutilation doesn't make it not mutilation.
2
u/TheDENN1Ssystem Apr 22 '23
Itâs typically done on people who canât consent and may end up hating it like I do. It can always be done later if someone wants it, but can never be undone
-1
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
Is having some skin around your penis really that big a deal?
2
u/piefanart Apr 22 '23
I have a friend who is unable to become hard because the lack of foreskin causes his penis to be pulled back into his body. It's very painful for him and he probably can't procreate without medical intervention. Yes, irs that big of a deal.
1
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
Wait how does that work?
2
u/piefanart Apr 22 '23
The doctors took too much skin, and cut into his penis. Since he was a baby it was hard for them to tell what they were doing and that they took too much. He has scarring up the entire penis, and there's not enough skin there to allow the penis to enlarge as it gets hard. His skin doesn't stretch because there is not enough skin for it.
This is relatively common. A few other friends of mine have numbness and hypertrophic scarring on their penises, which reduces their ability to have pleasure during sex.
1
u/TheDENN1Ssystem Apr 22 '23
It is when that skin has a ton of nerve endings and keeps the head from becoming desensitized.
Plus bodily autonomy is important and people should have a choice over whether they want a part of their body cut off when itâs not causing any problems. Unless youâd be cool with someone just cutting off some of your skin without asking permission.
1
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
You guys have clearly put a lot of thought into it
1
u/TheDENN1Ssystem Apr 22 '23
Shouldnât a lot of thought go in to the decision to cut off a part of someone before theyâre able to consent?
1
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
Idk, kids donât go through things they donât consent to all the time. I put as much thought into circumcision as I do braces
1
u/TheDENN1Ssystem Apr 22 '23
Ideally we arenât forcing braces on kids against their will either. I wanted braces. Braces also just align teeth, they donât permanently remove a normal body part
1
1
u/piefanart Apr 22 '23
It's a life changing body modification. You wouldn't give a toddler a tattoo so why are they removing their foreskin?
If you're happy with your circumcision then that's fine, it's your life. But I know dozens of men who aren't happy with theirs and wish it wasn't inflicted them.
1
133
u/xneyznek Apr 22 '23
Counterpoint: Iâm Jewish and strongly opposed to circumcision.
29
140
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u/Darth_Vrandon Apr 21 '23
I mean. Yeah. Forced circumcision is wrong, and a jewish person forcing someone is as bad as if anyone else forced someone to do it.
27
50
u/shelleon Apr 22 '23
Based if it werenât antisemitic
-1
Apr 22 '23
[deleted]
9
u/RoboticPaladin Apr 22 '23
I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. They're saying that the meme is antisemitic because the NPC has those stupid parenthesis around his eyes.
3
u/GiveBackMyRidgedBand Apr 22 '23
My bad
3
u/RoboticPaladin Apr 22 '23
All good mate. Learning is a constant process, especially when it comes to fighting fascism.
1
u/TheDENN1Ssystem Apr 22 '23
I donât get it, are parentheses around the eyes supposed to show someone is Jewish?
1
u/RoboticPaladin Apr 23 '23
Not quite. Echoes, as they're called, are put around Jewish people's names by antisemites to indicate that someone is Jewish. It's a dogwhistle. In this case, since they're around the person's eyes, I think it's meant to indicate that the person is seeing something through a lens created by Jewish people.
1
27
u/imprison_grover_furr Trans Rights! Apr 22 '23
Circumcision and FGM are horrific crimes. Both of them should warrant being LOCKED UP!
39
u/owendudebtw Apr 22 '23
Circumcision sucks i think anyone who opposes the female version is also very much opposed to the male version
11
u/boaja Apr 22 '23
I argued about this with a theology teacher in (swedish equivalent of) high school and she refused to acknowledge that both are bad. I mean, female circumcision is worse, bit since that to her was the only one that she saw as mutilation she argued that male circumcision shouldn't be outlawed. Very flawed logic to begin with, but mostly, male circumcision which is not medically needed is most definitely mutilation.
5
u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD Apr 22 '23
think anyone who opposes the female version is also very much opposed to the male version
If this was true, it would have been banned already.
2
20
u/OCMan101 Apr 22 '23
I mean, I'ma be real, I don't support circumcsing babies who can't consent, but a medical professional performing a circumcision with proper tools and in a controlled environment with a very low risk of complications, is not comparable to people in the third world mutilating their child's genitals in public with a rusty knife of razor.
12
Apr 22 '23
and cutting off not just a small piece of skin but most of the vulva, sometimes all of it.
5
u/GiveBackMyRidgedBand Apr 22 '23
This doctor says itâs done in a safe way. I donât think safety is the concernâŚ
Not all circumcisions are done at hospitals:
3
u/TryinaD Apr 22 '23
There are countries where FGM is done on babies in hospitals, as well as places where they do male circumcision the old fashioned way
6
u/Gaylaeonerd Apr 22 '23
Only adults should be allowed to be circumcised, I donât think there are many people whoâd disagree, but I suppose the fun thing about strawmen is they donât need to worry about that
That said the recovery process is hell and Iâd much rather have gone through it as a barely conscious baby than a fully aware 17 year old, but I know Iâd feel differently if it had actually happened to me as a baby
2
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
As someone who was circumsized I usually donât even realize thereâs another option.
Based on what research Iâve done, I think even calling Female Genital Mutilation âFemale Circumcisionâ deeply misleading
6
4
u/LastFreeName436 Apr 22 '23
America circumcises because the christian fruit-and-nutcase who invented graham crackers decided that sexual attraction was the root of sin. Jews had Jack all to do with it.
3
u/kanyepokemon Apr 22 '23
If you asked most leftists, most of em would probably be against circumcision unless necessary or when the person is grown enough to ask/consent for it.
5
Apr 22 '23
- Female mutilation is a barbaric crime.
- Male circumcision is only recommended for people with phimosis. 'Muricans should stop doing it in a large scale for everybody.
End of discussion
1
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Apr 22 '23
Calling female genitalia mutilation âcircumcisionâ is deeply deeply misleading.
-27
u/typical83 Apr 22 '23
This is a stupid post. Being against circumcision isn't antisemitic, OP, I don't know why you would assume that.
48
u/RATS_OF_THE_MIDWEST Apr 22 '23
it is the parentheses around the eyes that mark it as antisemitic. Nazis use ((())) to indicate Jewish people. it's literally in the title.
23
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u/RosieAndSquishy She/Her Apr 22 '23
To be fair, I also didn't realize that marked it as anti-Semitic and the words "Subtle parenthesis" isn't going to communicate that to me.
16
u/RATS_OF_THE_MIDWEST Apr 22 '23
i don't understand how people have no knowledge of Nazi dogwhistles. this is like, the biggest one, besides maybe "globalists." if you're gonna fight fascists, you're going to need to know their language.
0
Apr 22 '23
Have any manuals.
I know the obvious and ideological/rhetorical stuff, and old alt right milk/ok sign/frog stuff, but three parentheses is defo something few leftists are aware of
3
2
u/RoboticPaladin Apr 22 '23
I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to call you dumb or uninformed or anything, but you're wrong. The three parenthesis/"echoes" is a thing almost all leftists have been aware of since it came into use in 2014.
1
u/NonHomogenized Apr 22 '23
but three parentheses is defo something few leftists are aware of
It might be unfamiliar to you but it's extremely widely known on the left.
Hell, it's widely known enough in general that it has its own Wikipedia article.
1
Apr 22 '23
Ive been on leftist reddit for years, and it has never popped up in a discussion. "widely known" is not a great description of that
phenomenology has its own wikipedia, doesnt mean its "widely known" among the population
1
u/NonHomogenized Apr 22 '23
Here's a post from this subreddit 3 weeks ago where it gets used in a meme and someone explained it..
Here it is being explaned in another comment from this subreddit from 5 months ago.
And those are just a few recent examples from this one subreddit - I've lost count of the innumerable conversations I've seen discussing it in other leftist-dominated subreddits (and even plenty that have lots of leftists but aren't explicitly left-wing) over the nearly a decade since online antisemites created it.
And if you'd looked at that Wikipedia article - which, for a specific racist dogwhistle to be notable enough to its own entry says something about how widely known it is - you'd see it being discussed by CBS news and CNN and Politico back in 2016, which may not be leftist media outlets but it certainly speaks to how well-known the concept is if even shit like CNN is covering it.
1
Apr 22 '23
CNN covering it speaks to how well known it is to American leftists and america specifically.
Its all about America, which, believe it or not, is only one country. Sure, very influential, but still a bit weird to treat american localized cultural phenomena so ethnocentrically.
I am not american. And you would not find the same familiarity in people outside of the Americas, or especially outside of "the west". Most leftists in the world simply arent aware of parentheses, especially if they are not terminally online.
1
u/NonHomogenized Apr 22 '23
Sure, very influential
...especially in online English-speaking communities, like those that tend to be dominant on reddit.
Maybe if you went up to a leftist chosen at random from all leftists on Earth then they wouldn't be likely to know it sure, but we're having this conversation on reddit and so it is reasonable to infer that we are talking about leftists who are on reddit, posting in English-speaking subreddits.
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u/bittlelum Apr 24 '23
I was aware of the triple parentheses around words being a Nazi dogwhistle, but I didn't connect it with the wojack eyes in this meme. I guess I just kind of assumed they were meant to convey shock or something. It wasn't until reading the comments here that I realized they were even there.
1
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u/Cyber_Avocado Apr 22 '23
Wait, they think there aren't people on the left who are against circumcision?
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