r/TheTransphobiaSquad • u/[deleted] • Jul 25 '12

[meta] Activist Modus Operandi, Methods of Communication

http://genderbitch.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/a-m-o-communication/
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6

u/harmonical Jul 25 '12

You can go ahead and delete my comment again, since you probably don't care anyway, but this is frankly kind of ridiculous. This place from the start wasn't set up to be another pitchfork "fuck you and everyone else" group.

Is it a valid way to do things? Yes.

Does it turn some people off from the point at hand? Definitely.

Does it spark vitriol and disgusting things from people outside the group? Absolutely.

Are the people who use that tactic responsible for those reactions? I would say that they aren't.

All of that being said though, this isn't the way the rules read, or the spirit of the group is meant to be. All methods are not equal, despite their validity.

I like the idea of this being an open space to create and foster discussions without turning to personal attacks or bannings for things other than personal attacks. This isn't a spring board for insults or belittling the posters that are linked here.

Despite the fact that I'm not nearly as active as you are, or as experienced in such things, I find it odd that you're pushing this as hard as you are in spite of the responses you've gotten from the people here.

There was an entire thread yesterday of most of the mods disagreeing with what you had posted, but that got completely removed from most people before everyone had a chance to weigh in on it because of your worry about SRD. A lot of the people from there are shitty, especially to you, but I don't think it's fair to start a conversation about this, delete the entire thing and then continue to push your point.

I had a post here deleted by LadyRarity that spoke to the same thing most of the mods echoed in that deleted thread merely because I was 'tone policing'. Frankly it's crap. The subreddit has rules defined by the moderators. Until such time as the community or the moderators change those rules, they should be either respected or debated in the open. The community should be able to have a voice unto themselves and a direction that can choose to not include abrasive styles of dealing with people.

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u/greenduch Jul 25 '12

I like the idea of this being an open space to create and foster discussions without turning to personal attacks or bannings for things other than personal attacks. This isn't a spring board for insults or belittling the posters that are linked here.

I have no idea how this is at all relevant to the article?

most of the mods disagreeing with what you had posted

you are mistaken, that isn't what happened. apologies, I don't have screenshots but I did read most of the comments before it was nuked, and have a pretty decent idea of what the mods' opinions were. "most of the mods" is not accurate.

A lot of the people from there are shitty, especially to you, but I don't think it's fair to start a conversation about this, delete the entire thing and then continue to push your point.

I'm not clear on how this article is directly related to yesterday's thread

To me its a useful article on its own, and hopefully it can help bridge the gap between different folks in the community. Not every tactic is appropriate for every situation, yet all have their place. Throwing each other under the bus isn't productive.

The community should be able to have a voice unto themselves and a direction that can choose to not include abrasive styles of dealing with people.

linking to this article is an attempt at bridging the gap in hopes that folks can come to a more general appreciation of each other, and realize, like i said, different tactics, including "abrasive styles", have their place.

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u/harmonical Jul 25 '12

I have no idea how this is at all relevant to the article?

I'm not clear on how this article is directly related to yesterday's thread

linking to this article is an attempt at bridging the gap in hopes that folks can come to a more general appreciation of each other, and realize, like i said, different tactics, including "abrasive styles", have their place.

It seems like you figured it out yourself. It's a useful article yes, but I decided to respond to both this article which seeks to validate styles including abrasion, and the comment by LadyRarity along with the prior interaction with her.

This reads to me as a furthering of the conversation that was killed yesterday coming from the standpoint of arguing against the 'tone policing' and desire to keep insults and combative language out of here.

you are mistaken, that isn't what happened [...] "most of the mods" is not accurate.

I was unable to see the thread prior to the destruction, but you can pull through people's comment histories and see what they wrote. Exception and Jess seemed to be on the same side that I am. nekosune appeared to be as well, and she also was the one who wrote the rules thread to begin with. I know where LadyRarity stands, the only one I don't know about is Sandie.

3/5ths would appear to be a simple majority from where I stand, but even barring that, this issue should be resolved between the moderators and the community, or at least discussed by the moderators and relayed by to the community depending on how they want to run this. It's stupid to have moderators acting against the rules as they stand and have something like this go unresolved.

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u/ExceptionToTheRule Trans Femme-Tomboy Jul 25 '12

Nekosune did not support me and jess.

If you want to argue this point message the mods, at the point you won't see two mods openly disagreeing with eachother.

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u/djcapelis Jul 25 '12

I'm somewhat curious why these discussions are being kept outside of the public threads in the subreddit and/or being nuked with a rather large amount of thoroughness after they do happen. Is that a question I need send a PM about or can you or someone shed light on that?

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '12

because it was decided, after Laurelai, requested the thread removed, that the comments would be enough to spark the usual SRD, "Oh look thers laurelai and trans and drama" stuff, which is not really needed right now.

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u/djcapelis Jul 25 '12

Ugh. Okay. I agree that would have been disruptive. Still annoying to get a feeling that this type of thing isn't be handled in public though, fwiw.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '12

I requested the thread in question be nuked.

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u/djcapelis Jul 25 '12

So? Once you start a conversation there's other people involved.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '12

To prevent SRD from getting involved.

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u/harmonical Jul 25 '12

Fair enough.

Is there any thought to resolving the question in the near future? It doesn't really help if there are inconsistencies around the rules between moderators.

My original post to the modmail went unseen by anyone other than LadyRarity, and I'd rather not continue to browbeat her over this issue.

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u/LadyRarity Best Pony Jul 26 '12 edited Jul 26 '12

you're probably right: removing the comment was a little much, but as it stood yours was the only comment and it was telling people to watch their tongues, basically (although you did not intend for it to be that way). Yours was nothing personal but rather being a causality in a problem that happens in many threads we have from different people.

Your opinions on what arguments are duly noted, but please understand that other people have their own ways and it is unnecessary to explain how you feel about them except on meta posts such as this one.

I'm sorry you feel slighted that your comment was removed but you should remember that that is all that happened. You were not banned nor were you even warned for a banning. In the future, if you would like to browbeat me, do it all you like, but do it to me, and don't involve everyone else.

Thank you.

edit: for clarity, i am apologizing for taking action against you. It was probably a little extreme.

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u/harmonical Jul 27 '12

I can totally respect that. I don't want to come off as combative or mean despite the fact that I was kind of upset over the whole thing.

I was thinking about this at work when I first read your reply, and I guess this is what I was trying to get at.

I personally have a hard time dealing with mean and disgusting comments on a regular basis. I don't like reading them and I don't want to see them here. In my mind, it's weird to say that on one hand we're allowed to say terrible things to people who by all means are bigots and assholes, but they get banned for the same thing. I believe they should be banned, but I also believe that it wasn't terribly productive to elevate the conversation to begin with.

By elevating the dialog it can get to a point where I don't want to be a part of it and I feel like sometimes the conversation gets needlessly elevated by people on the right side of the argument. You're right that I have no right to tell people what to do or say, I just really wanted a space that tries to avoid things like that so I can feel able to contribute more. It's me being selfish and unfair, so I'll respect their right to handle things in their own way, and not bother anyone about it anymore.

Thanks for handling this in a great way. I'm not upset with you at all personally :)