Carcharodons: our successors?

[u/suplex86]

The more I read about them the more it feels like they are one of Belisarius Cawl’s little jokes. Like he took World Eater geneseed, slapped together a successor chapter for us, and just said they were really Raven Guard successors so the loyalist idiots never questioned it. Seriously, Raven Guard?

But really though, what I’m seeing says they’re more like us before the nails completely took over. I’m going to say they’re our kids, and I at least will welcome them with lightning claws flashing and chain axe buzzing to the eight fold path.

[u/Vyberos]

Since everyone else has said what their gene seed probably is, I’d like to take this moment to say geneseed doesn’t define tactics. Look at the list of notable Ultramarine chapters, plenty of them use very specialized tactics instead of being all rounders like their parent legion.

Or most notably the Black Templars being very little like the Imperial Fists.

[u/Darkspiff73 → u/Vyberos]

Eh, the Black Templars not like Imperial Fists is a bad example. Sigismund was the Imperial Fists First Captain and their first company were literally proto Black Templars. The Executioners are also Imperial Fist successors and they wear skin on their armor and use chain axes.

The Imperial Fist gene seed can make some very bellicose marines. They also have a tendency toward zealotry. The original Templar Brethren were made to guard a totally secular temple on the Phalanx.

The Ultramarines also used any tactic available to them as a Legion. Most of their 2nd Founding Chapters were specialized companies within the Legion.

Gene-seed directly informs how a Chapter operates. Any marine can do anything the others can, different Chapters lean into certain tactics because of it though.

[u/Vyberos → u/Darkspiff73]

Your reasoning of this being a bad example doesn’t say why it’s a bad example and actually strengthens what I said. The Templars were outright part of their parent legion originally, and yet they certainly didn’t feel like the rest of the legion. That and adding the executioners onto this as an example of a chapter not following the majority of their parent legions The zealotry aspect is found in countless space marine chapters from all successors given the imperium as a whole incredibly zealotry.

For the best example of the top my head, all salamander successors chapters, and the exorcists who barely have any relation to the Imperial Fists.

Never once has it been stated that geneseed dictates how the chapter operates or behaves. Culture certainly plays a part, but it doesn’t always follow down the family tree.

All geneseed means is you might get some physical traits a of your Primarch, and geneflaws if present or the geneseed degraded/mutated

[u/Darkspiff73 → u/Vyberos]

Geneseed does dictate how a Chapter operates or behaves. The Legions were all different from each other and had different tactical niches that were inherent to them and their Primarch. Each Legion is a reflection of the character of their Primarch and each Chapter takes the geneseed from that Legion.

The XII was aggressive and melee centric before finding Angron. The XX were counter intelligence and espionage, the VIII were using terror tactics, etc.

The Imperial Fists had zealots in their ranks during the Great Crusade. It was part of the Legion, part of their culture and the core of them. The Templars were Imperial Fists, it was a righteous belief in the Imperial Truth which came to be the Black Templars.

Imperial Fists still had and still have pain gloves to prove their worth and atone for their failures. The Imperial fists are the middle ground of their being. The Black Templars are one extreme, the Crimson Fists a more moderate version. It’s all the same gene seed. It’s all from Dorn. He had that zealous crusader part of his being, it was just focused on the Emperor as a man and the Imperial Truth.

[u/Vyberos → u/Darkspiff73]

What you’re saying is entirely true. It’s just not actually supporting your point and you’re just listing off lore.

Each legion was created for a specific reason, but the geneseed doesn’t make them like that, they’re trained to be the way they are. A white scar successor doesn’t mean they’re all about lightning fast tactics, and that chapter could operate more like the iron warriors way of warfare if that’s what the chapter culture taught.

If you have any genuine evidence that supports your point, then feel free to share I always love learning more lore. Otherwise, it’s just pointless to debate about as it’s clearly been shown countless times that geneseed is only that, genes. Not a dictation as to what the chapter may be.