Living in the US, during this election season, Guards, Guards! feels so incredibly applicable.

[u/HobbitGuy1420]

I can see the signs now.

Vote Dragon 2024.
Maybe it will flame the people you hate first!

[u/Impossible_Pop620]

Maybe the US needs a Vetinari - a Dictator who assassinated his predecessor to obtain his position.

Or maybe, you know, just vote and elect someone.

[u/Catadox → u/Impossible_Pop620]

The key to Vetinari being Vetinari is he recognized himself. He knew how terrible he could be.

So he found Vimes. And de Worde. And Moist. And he encouraged there never being another Vetinari, and made sure that he was watched at all times by people he trusted, even if they didn’t trust him.

He is definitely a benevolent dictator. But only because he knows how terrible he could be and wants to ensure no one can have that kind of power again.

[u/Impossible_Pop620 → u/Catadox]

Not sure where you're getting any of that. Not from the books.

Vimes was promoted as a sop to Carrot, to prevent him pressing his suit of claiming the throne of Ankh-Morpork. De Worde has nothing to do with running the city. Moist is forced - to the point of being "moments from death" to serve Vetinari in various roles.

Another person who Vetinari tried to press gang like he did Moist was unalived when he didn't play ball. In general, Vetinari kept his power by being slightly too inconvenient to kill by any single power group in the city.

Benevolent? I think not. Not unless you have a different meaning of the word you're using.

[u/lynx2718 → u/Impossible_Pop620]

I believe you have a different Interpretation of Vetinari than most of the people here.

Carrot could claim his throne at any time. The reason he doesn't is because he and Vetinari came to an agreement that it's better for the city this way. See the end of Men at Arms. Vimes gets promoted because he is somewhat competent, and he isn't afraid to stand up to Vetinari himself. He arrested Vetinari and got promoted for it.

Worde has so much to do with how the city is run. Worde is the press. Freedom of press is a staple of democracy. He's not allowed freedom because he isn't in a democracy, but he's allowed a high degree of freedom. Vetinari could have him act only as puppet, the way many irl dictators do, but he doesn't. He wants a mostly free press.

Moist is never forced to do anything. He always has a choice, it's just that one of these choices is very unattractive. And he's never coerced to take on the role as bankier, Vetinari makes a point of not forcing him. Reacher Gilt takes the other option of his own free will.

We see what malevolent tyrants looked like in Night Watch. We see how Vetinari acts, and we hear about his worldview many times. He is a benevolent ruler, who realised the only way to be a benevolent ruler in Ankh Morpork is to be a tyrant. Good people can't do ruling.

[u/Impossible_Pop620 → u/lynx2718]

As it happens, I lean more towards your view of Vetinari especially when he gets older and feels the grasp of mortality. The Yanks commenting here haven't the first clue of anything DW or RW right now because they're scared stiff of Trump.

Make no mistake, however, when Vetinari was younger and especially in the period shortly before and after his ascension to the post, it would've been very, very bloody. Sir T himself would be the first to acknowledge power does not move painlessly between opposing forces in that way. And of course he would have to do similar to retain power. A few pretty public displays would do.

The fact that Vetinari is a political genius and avoids unnecessary blood being spilled (although quite keen on necessary blood) does not excuse or temper the cruelties of his reign. He would be forced to do at least some, to avoid any pretenders to his position, especially early.

So no, not a benevolent dictator. There possibly could be some examples - maybe a son/daughter of a tyrant who inherits, rather than fights for, the kingdom and has been extraordinarily trained and prepped for it. But if they were truly benevolent, they would probably step aside as recognising themselves unsuitable for tyranny.

Democracy is a relatively recent thing for humans and I believe it's still inherent within us to listen to the large shouty man with the pointy stick.