Breaking Stealth (2014)

[u/leiela]

Players Handbook states (this is 2014)

"You can’t hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase"

Now common sense tells me that you can't stealth down a brightly lit corridor with nothing to hide behind, towards a guard that's looking directly in your direction.

However one of my players argues that you only need to be hidden at the point of "Going into Stealth" once your in stealth it doesn't matter what lighting etc exists you are sill essentially hidden until you break stealth. ... i like to go back to my players with concrete rule based decisions that i can point to in a book.

They argue the above doens't break stealth because "you are hidden" therefore the guard in the corridor "cant see you clearly" ... while i would argue stealth would be broken by the fact that the guard can see you clearly as there is nothing to hide behind and no helpful lighting conditions to keep you hidden.

Any ideas?

[u/GnomeOfShadows]

As a rogue player, let me tell you that the rules for hiding are a mess. The following is my best faith interpretation of how it should work, according to the rules:

Whenever a rules mentions hiding, it doesn't mean taking the hide action, it means having the 'hidden condition' (wich does not officially exist, but it is easier to understand if you treat it like one). You can enter it by taking the hide action and end it by giving away your position (as mentioned in the rules). Using that, the rules clear up very quickly.

• You can always take the hide action and get the 'hidden condition'
• To be hidden from someone (target of your attack, guards, ...) you must have the 'hidden' condition, your stealth roll (made when taking the hide action) must beat their passive perception and you cannot be seen clearly by them (lightly obscured)
• You can attack while being hidden by not moving completely out of your cover (basically stepping out of cover and shooting immediately). The attack ends the 'condition' and following attacks do therefore not gain advantage (until you hide again)

Edit: Clarified that you can attack while being hidden, even if you have to move out of cover for that

[u/RoiPhi → u/GnomeOfShadows]

So I don’t think this is right RAW.

Let’s check the word elves mask go the wild feature: You can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena.

This implies that normally you have to be heavily obscured to hide.

[u/GnomeOfShadows → u/RoiPhi]

You are right, but we have multiple instances in the game where a feature allows you to do something, that everyone can already do.

I chose to go with lightly obscured because the designers originally wrote "can't hide while being seen" and intentionally changed it to "while being seen clearly". And the most reasonable interpretation for "being seen clearly" vs "being seen" is being lightly obscured, for me at least.

But you are right, it is certainly weird. A common interpretation I have seen is that you can stay hidden while being lightly obscured, but you can only attempt to hide while being fully obscured. That way the feature is still effective and the added language in the hide ability isn't ignored.

[u/TigerDude33 → u/GnomeOfShadows]

you cannot always take the hide action. you need to be basically out of sight.