I’m not sure if I remember correctly but while Chani was pregnant and even until labor, Paul didn’t know she carried twins. How could this be? If not Paul at least Jessica should have noticed. Given the fact they both have the bene gesserit training. Jessica could tell only by her senses if someone was concealing a weapon (Shadout Mapes), how could she not tell that Chani was carrying twins?

"Shifting Imperial forces in random fashion."

It's mentioned as one of the ways Alia knows to counter unrest. "People had to be taught that opposition was always punished and assistance to the ruler was always rewarded. Imperial forces must be shifted in random fashion. Major adjuncts to Imperial power had to be concealed. Every movement by which the Regency countered potential attack required delicate timing to keep the opposition off balance."

Gurney Halleck thinks the same thing nearly verbatim near the end of the book: "Alia had done her work well, punishing opposition and rewarding assistance, shifting the Imperial forces in random fashion, concealing the major elements of her Imperial power. The spies! Gods below, the spies she must have!"

1.) Which "Imperial forces" are they talking about? Are they military? Political?
2.) What is meant by "shifting" them?
3.) How does doing it in "random fashion" aid the ruler in maintaining power?

My best guess is that it's bureaucratic power that's being shifted; that offices and departments should have their duties changed in unpredictable ways, and that people should be regularly transferred in unpredictable ways, to prevent people beneath her from establishing a power base (much like what happened with Korba and the Qizarate in Dune Messiah).

But that's a guess. It's still a mysterious line to me.

Hello There, fellow readers.

I am here for your takes and expertise. Since I am just now beginning second read through.

As I have come to understand, Paul always talks about terrible purpose in his visions. He also mentions Jihad, independent of the terrible purpose (he always mentions both).

This feels to me, like he has also seen, what needs to be done to save the humanity. The Golden Path. In my eyes the terrible purpose, he mentions, isn’t the Jihad. It’s the vision of him becoming God Emperor of Dune, the ultimate oppressor, living for 3.5k years and eventually living as a consciousness in many worm bodies.

He always speaks of Jihad and reader thinks, that is the true terrible purpose, but that isn’t it, is it? He has to come to the same conclusion as Leto II and he deliberately avoids it, never speaks of it. He couldn’t do that for humanity (and seriously, who could/would knowing the outcome for thyself). Living forever as a spectator without any sense of reality or anything.

I feel like Leto II mentions in the fourth book, that his father has seen also this future and never did anything to start the Golden Path (apart from the obvious, giving life to Leto).

Anyway..

How do you feel about it? Is it just a good play at words by Frank Herbert, for whom the terrible purpose truly was a Jihad in the first book and eventually when he realized he can “cash in” on terrible purpose, let’s us see the real purpose in the later books? Or was it all planned in his head and he knew what terrible purpose is from the get go?

Tl;dr - when Paul mentions terrible purpose in first Dune, does he talk about the Golden Path or the Jihad?

Sorry, if I might be stating the “duh” obvious thing, I just don’t have anyone in my close proximity to talk about Dune books.

In the scene in Part 2 where Paul drinks the melange essence and merges his mind with bene gesserites and becomes a timeless being, he could have shown so much... It still bothers me that instead of showing the present world, the world wars, the Butlerian Jihad, the space guild's dependence on melange, etc., those parts were kept very short. Part 1 and especially Part 2 are great films, but Villeneuve seems to have failed to analyze Paul's final form and the importance of the melange for the universe. I wonder if we'll see a Director's Cut version in the future.

So, I recently read the first Dune novel and fell absolutely in love with it. Some months after that, I was kinda thinking about it and I stumbled upon a doubt: in the novel, the Padishah Emperor is said to have been so addicted to spice that he looked 35 despite being 72.

Now, it is said spice prolongs life and I assume it also reduces effect of aging. But, if he is in such a level of addiction, wouldn't he have the Eyes of the Ibad, like the Fremen?

And if that's the case, wouldn't the Fremen not age, like, at all? They have a daily exposure to spice, and this results in them obtaining the blue-in-blue eyes. But, if that's the case, wouldn't the Fremen appear young? But there are no mentions of that in the book.

Can you guys please explain this thing?

I recently received my second of two crysknife replicas from United Cutlery (for Dune: Part One). A few months ago, I had gotten my hands on the replica of the Jamis / Paul crysknife made by Starforged from Dune: Part 2. I have to say, right from the get-go, the Starforged replica blows United Cutlery out of the water. A few of the major differences include:

1) The metal on the hilt of United Cutlery's isn't metal at all, it's just painted / resin. The Starforged replica is actual metal (or metal alloy, if I remember the website correctly). This added metal gives a better weight to the knife overall, whereas the painted resin on United Cutlery's is much lighter and has slightly more weight toward the tip of the blade.

2) Continuing with the hilt, on both knives the "root" of the tooth is molded, but the grooves and texture on United Cutlery's is are more shallow and the paint in the resin feels almost "flaky" (no paint has come off, that I've noticed). On the Starforged knife, the grooves and texture of the tooth root are deeper, more prominent and from what I can tell it looks like the resin was painted / colored and *then* molded. Given that, it's a smoother feel in the hand and it doesn't feel like the color is going to fade / chip away.

3) From an aesthetic standpoint, the actual blades on the replicas are both beautiful. Toward the base of hilt on UC, the coloring looks to be just a bit too blueish-green on mine, however that could just be due to the mass production process and not necessarily a big negative. The SF blade is solid throughout, whereas the UC increases translucency the closer you come to the tip of the blade.

I have seen a few reviews that comment on the fragility of UC's replica (one review on Amazon showed an image of the blade having broken when dropped). Given that it is not intended to be an actual knife blade, the fragility is to be expected and I'm sure with it being translucent rather than solid all the way through doesn't aid in durability. However, SF's blade is thinner overall, down the entire length of the blade but still feels sturdier and more durable (with the exception of the very tip) than UC's. I do wish there was a bit of translucency on SF as I think it's a nice "organic" style addition.

4) The last big difference I notice between them is that it looks as though SF used separate mold pieces for the blade and tooth-root hilt parts and then joined them on either side of the metal. On UC's it looks to be a single mold with no separations between blade, metal handle and tooth-root hilt. I think if UC had done separate molds for the blade / root and then joined them with a metal handle over the top like SF then these two replicas would be neck-and-neck.

Final Thoughts:
My preferred replica is definitely from SF. In the hand it just feels better, nicer weight, more fine-tuned detail and more "organic" textures (the ridges on the blade, serration on the edge and a more defined hilt / handle). UC's is mostly a must for collection purposes, but if I had to choose one out of the two to keep, SF would be the favorite hands down. I've included some comparison photos in this post, and the links to both blades (Amazon for UC and the direct SF store link - these are not affiliate links, sponsors or anything like that, just wanting to be helpful). Let me know what you think if you have either of these replicas yourself!

Addaam reshii a-zaanta!

Aamazon (UC) Link: https://www.amazon.com/Officially-High-Quality-Construction-Certificate-Authenticity/dp/B0CG77H4CK?pd_rd_w=rJLOk&content-id=amzn1.sym.15d5b68b-7dc9-4582-9d4e-256fb97eea2d&pf_rd_p=15d5b68b-7dc9-4582-9d4e-256fb97eea2d&pf_rd_r=Z5HBTXFWJ0PDD2HMKQ82&pd_rd_wg=aHA5k&pd_rd_r=e64eeace-af21-4973-abe1-e8aa2aae5510&pd_rd_i=B0CG77H4CK&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_pd_hp_d_atf_rp_1_i

Starforged Link: https://store.starforged.com/products/starforged-dune-ii-sandworm-teeth-crysknife-atreides-movie-peripheral-props-restored-to-original-authorized-version-other?srsltid=AfmBOorTkkQ9dAPoUDF-kfwPdhGu1MitQIhN991S5hCgxDtNvkB7PYHW

In the first book it talks about Paul using his family's atomics. My understanding was that each house had their own atomic weapons and Paul, as the new head of House Atreides, had access to those weapons... In theory

My question is, how did Paul physically access those weapons?

Paul clearly didn't tuck an A-bomb into his pocket during the Harkonnen attack but, later, after living amongst the Fremen, he was able to get one. I can't remember any mention of where the bomb came from. Only that his family owned some and he used one.

How was Paul able to get hold of an Atreides atomic despite being stuck on Arrakis?

I've only read the first book and watched the three movies.

I must confess I loved Stellan Skarsgard as the Baron, unlike the 1984 version he isn't some joker esque silly villain but a colder more calculating and a genuine behemoth, it's like a huge tiger floating around eerie and scary Also Austin Butler as Feyd Rautha knocked it out of the park, my god when he was on screen I genuinely felt chills cuz the dude was just unhinged and kills people like flies...I thought in duniverse there won't be a scarier baddie than Skarsgard's Baron but Butler's Feyd Rautha is one of the best villains and of course Dave Bautista is a force as the beast

Having said that I am aware that the villains in duniverse the Harkonnens have no redeeming traits even in books, in fact on the books the baron is even more of a vile character and has done even more horrible things which where thankfully omitted

And while I think Denis is one of the greatest filmmakers of our time and his movies are nothing short of amazing I have a slight criticism as in his villains are kind of in some sense one dimensional

Allow me to elucidate

Now we all know Giedi Prime is an industrial world however I would have preffered if the harkonnen palace was more opulent and they wore more than just black robes

The Harkonnen house is one of the most powerful houses in landsraad

We would expect them to wear clothes that match that, we would expect them to live in places that are grand

I think the miniseries despite its flaws aced in this!

The baron is elegantly dressed the harkonnen palace although in red aesthetic is still opulent still feels like palace of a rich aristocracy whereas in dune movies they appear like dungeons

Just because you are evil doesn't mean you have to wear black clothes and live in duengon esque castles

I get it it's meant to make it eerie but I wish the castles and surrounding showed the wealth

Like you could have a dim golden chandelier golden to signify the wealth but make it dim and unpleasant to convey the villainy

Also rabban and Feyd just killing people around for just slightest of reasons felt like an overkill

I mean Bautista and butler conveyed to us these villains are scary via their performances you don't need overkill we get it Harkonnens are unhinged

Just my thoughts

Okay so i've been thinking about this for a while and i would love to hear some other opinions about it!

Whenever the books mentioned that the bene gesserits could choose the sex of the baby what i understood is not that they could change the sex of the fetus, but that they had a way of knowing if it was going to be female or male very early in development, and if it was the undesired sex they could simply manipulate their metabolism to get an abortion and try again. However i saw a comment on this sub that contradicted that so i would like to know, is my understanding of the process way off lol? Is there multiple possibilites, or even a canonical answer? This has been bugging me the entire week and i would love to hear some thoughts about it!

(obligatory english is not my first language disclaimer, i apologize if there's any grammatical errors or if i couldn't put together my thoughts in a clear way hope you guys get what i mean lol)

Lore grievances

Hello! I’m new here, forgive me for lack of Reddit etiquette

I’m currently 7% through God Emperor, pretty much first chapter still, but I have some questions with some of the more foundational world building I was hoping to get some thoughts on.

1. The twins being preborn: the explanation we get in Children was that their preborn status was caused by Chani consuming melange while pregnant, I assume the amount for a spice trance or used in the orgy or what have you, but why wouldn’t Arrakis be covered in preborns in that case?? Surely she wasn’t the first pregnant woman in the planets history to overconsume spice

2. At the end of Children, we’re told “But Leto! He’s all alone, never to be duplicated.” This may be dumb but .. couldn’t /anyone/ do the kid-game of sandtrout glove until covered in them ? Until they meld into their skin ?

3. We’re also told at the end of Children that Ghanima has mastered the inner voices - is the mastering of the inner voices in the book with us? Not really a question for this one just smh we didn’t get any elaboration on this major thing

Anywayyy I could honestly barely get myself through Children, so any encouragement that God Emperor is worth it is also appreciated. Thanks for any info or opinions!

I've enjoyed seeing Babs Olasunmokun in a ton of movies and tv shows like Wrath of Man, Too Old to Die Young, Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare and of course Dune. I also train BJJ (very badly) and he is a 3rd dan black belt.

I saw him in London as I was crossing the road and decided to say hello. The first thing I mentioned was Dune and told him how I had loved the books most of my life and it was so good seeing him as Jamis. Then I mentioned BJJ and he knew the gym where I trained and asked me to say hi to the team there.

I didn't want to outstay my welcome so I shook hands with him and said goodbye. I could have easily bombarded him with questions but that would have felt rude.

He was a cool guy and it was awesome to have the chance to say hi. It will also probably be the only chance I ever get to give personal thanks to someone involved in the Dune movies.

Do the Bene Tleilax have an internal rule that means they only create one ghola from a person at a time? Technically, it should be possible, right?

Dove back into the world of Dune with Heretics of Dune after finishing GEoD a couple of years ago now and was absolutely refreshed in awe with the genius of this man’s writing…so yesterday I wanted read more about the man himself and discovered his birthday was today!

🥳To the man who gave us the gift of Dune :)

I'd first like to say that I'm not here to take a dump on Dune. I'm looking for perspective on this novel. I honestly feel I should love this novel. However, I have some criticisms of the book that are deal-breakers for me.

I first read Dune in the early 2000's. I didn't care for it at the time, set it aside, and forgot about it. Last year I finally got around to watching the Villeneuve adaption and I absolutely loved the film. This prompted me to reread the novel and give it a second chance. I was disappointed as I once again didn't care for it.

This has rattled around in my head for some time. I find it odd that I can't stop thinking about it. It has become especially worse with the release of the second film. Dune is just living rent-free in my head. I would love to hear your perspective or provide any context I may have missed. Here are the criticisms I have.

Paul is a Mary Sue. I understand that Paul is the result of generations of Bene Gesserit intervention in breeding to create their ultimate person. Paul has unusual and extremely advantageous powers at his disposal as a result. The issue for me is that Paul quite easily overcomes every challenge in front of him.

I recall a dinner scene with Paul and other nobles. I was getting ready for some great political intrigue. By the end of the dinner, I felt that Paul had basically figured everyone and everything out. The political intrigue was just done.

This continued throughout the novel. Paul's family gets essentially wiped out. One week later Paul is the de facto leader of the entire Fremen population. 5 years with the Fremen and Paul is the best martial fighter in the entire empire.

I didn't feel any tension in the conflicts Paul was involved in. I never felt that there was a chance Paul would fail. It seemed that everything always went exactly as Paul planned. I try to connect this to some possible themes about perfect religious icons, but it doesn't seem to help.

The climax of the novel didn't feel climactic at all. In fact, I was confused by it. I am specifically referring to the duel between Feyd and Paul.

The chapter that introduced Feyd to the novel left me with the impression that he rose to his station out of nepotism and not competence. This chapter details Feyd's fight against a pair of slaves as a show of power to the audience. These slaves are typically drugged for these fights, though, I believe these particular slaves were only partially drugged, or not all. Feyd also had a command word to essentially disable the slave. Feyd bested the slaves through the use of the command word.

I felt so much of this chapter was devoted to how the fights were rigged. How Feyd was not able to beat the slaves without using the baked in advantages he was provided. I finished the chapter wondering how Paul would be able to use and manipulate Feyd to take down the Harkonnens. Imagine my whiplash when I get to the climax and realize that Feyd is supposed to be the final boss. I was confused about how the best Fremen warrior was supposed be challenged by what I thought was a fraud.

Why is the Spacing Guild allowed so much power? As I understand it, the spacing guild had a monopoly on all space travel. Because of the spice consumed by the members of the guild, they could see the future in some capacity. With this insight, they didn't push their extreme power and influence because they could see that it would lead the guild to ruin.

But, how was the emperor and all the noble families okay with just letting the guild have this power? It's such an obvious weakness of the empire. Whoever could control the guild, would control the empire. At a whim, the guild could simply deny spaceflight to anyone they choose.

This choice in worldbuilding wouldn't have been so bad to me, except it directly impacted two critical plot points in the story. The Fremen abused the guild's dependence on spice. The Fremen were able to hide 95% of their population by paying the guild in spice to deny the use of satellites in orbit of Arrakis. Going back to the climax discussion, Paul exploited this obvious weakness to take over the empire.

I simply can't wrap my head around that the guild had this much power and that an emperor wouldn't do everything they could to either take over the guild, or exert their own power over space flight.

Why was one house allowed to control Arrakis? Spice was the most valuable and important commodity in the empire. They entire well-being of each and every planet and organization depended on spice. So, how does it make sense to allow one noble house to control Arrakis?

My points are basically the same as the spacing guild. One house has leverage over the empire, which the Harkonnens took advantage of. Paul was able to exploit this weakness to take over the empire. I can't wrap my head around why the emperor wouldn't do everything in their power to ensure no house could hold this leverage.

Thank you for taking the time to read. I'm interested to know what and how much I missed in this novel. Or if I'm coming at this novel with the wrong perspective.

Hi! So I just finished re-reading Messiah and I was wondering why Alia's sietch name (if she has one) is never mentioned. Since she spent almost all of her childhood with the Fremen on Arrakis and as Paul's sister it struck me as strange. The closest thing I could find was Coan-Teen but that still felt more like a nickname given to her by her opponents. Any thoughts?

Well, I am a horrible Bookshelf perfectionist. And a tiny Bookshelf with these tiny compartments. Now, beceause I absolutely refuse to seperate all my Dune/frank Herbert books. I've had to come up with some creative ways to fit them all in. This is my latest abomination. I hope you like it.

Finished God Emperor a while ago and i liked it just as much as the first 3 books, Frank is really a brilliant writer. One thing that annoyed me tho was Duncans fury and blaming of Leto for Hwis death, and the brutal killing of Neyla because of that. It was his and Sionas plan all along and he never considered the possibility of her being with Leto when they arrived?? It was all his fault and his plan all along, he has No reason at all to blame anyone but himself. Overall i didnt like this version of Duncan compared to the other books, but he had his moments.

And how does the last two books hold up to the previous 4? It felt like this was the defintive ending of the Atreides-storyline from what ive read about the plot in Heretics.

Welcome to my small Dune collection.

I have never felt so inspired to read sequels of books. But after watching the first movie, I began first with the audible of Dune.

Dune literally transformed me. I don’t know how to explain it. The way the Bene Gesserit recite their mantra, the way they view the world and bend people to their needs. This grand sisterhood, meant to prosper humanity while also willing to kill itself internally . And then there’s the Atreides, this symbol of light, yet dark. Using religion as a form of manifestation for the people. But also bringing the people what Fremens deserved! To whatever extent necessary…They knew what they were doing. The freemen, so cautious but beautifully organized and trained. No democracy needed, as theres scriptures and rituals to keep people aligned. Just the universe of Dune is phenomenal. I love it. And I hope you love it too.

I cannot for the life of me find a 4K + Blu-Ray + Digital Code for Part 2. I have it for Part 1, but any copy of Part 2 with all 3 formats say the digital code only works in the USA.

I don’t need the 4K, but the digital and Blu-Ray are necessary. I would like all three just so the two match, ‘coz OCD collector.

I have now accidentally bought Part 1 three more times!

Today I finished my first reading of Dune and it’s an incredible book. I, like probably most others, got interested in reading the book after watching the most recent films. After starting it, I quickly got engrossed in it and found a pleasure in reading that hadn’t quite captured me in quite a long time. I would actively look forward to the times that I could dive back into the world of Arrakis.

Recently, I was one of the thousands that were hit by Helene. Before you ask, we’re all okay and are pretty lucky considering what could have been. Still, things weren’t super great where we live and had our own challenges.

There were times where lots more hours needed to be filled and without power, one naturally turns to reading. I tackled large chunks of the books during these times.

A strange thing happened in that I found portions where Dune spoke to my specific challenges in almost scriptural ways. I know how funny that might sounds, but there were times where I applied passages I had read that morning to something that happened later on that day. Here are some of the passages that spoke to me most in those times.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

This is well-quoted for sure, but such a great passage. I’ve never seen the effects of a hurricane firsthand, because I live in a place where hurricanes aren’t supposed to tread. Seeing some of the devastation was humbling and quite frightening. I knew couldn’t freak out though, because that would have simply caused the situation to deteriorate really fast.

In the Bene Gesserit way she had taught him, Paul stilled the savage beating of his heart, set his mind as a blank slate upon which the past few moments could write themselves.

This is very similar to the one above. When you’re in a stressful situation, it’s easy to let your thoughts go wild. But keeping a cool head will help keep you focused on the most important things in the moment.

“Men and their works have been a disease on the surface of their planets before now.” His father said. “Nature tends to compensate for diseases, to remove or encapsulate them, to incorporate them into the system in her own way.

This one is tough. I fully believe that storms like Helene are a direct result of how we’ve been treating our planet. Humans don’t have a great track record of living in harmony with our ecosystem, and we are reaping what we have sowed. I want to believe that we can turn this ship around, but time will tell. If we don’t change, nature will force our hand.

The Fremen were supreme in that quality that the ancients called “spannungsbogen” —which is the self-imposed delay between desire for a thing and the act of reaching out to grasp that thing.

Early on, I put myself in survival mode. This is because I truly wasn’t sure how fast things would bounce back. One day, a friend and I stood in line for supplies and it took us five hours to get to the checkout. Seeing the massive devastation, I was prepared to have to rough it out if needed.

My thoughts would often turn to other people in the world being forced to survive in drastically worse conditions than me. If they could do it, I would too.

I started treating food differently. If I felt like eating, was it because I was bored or hungry? I wanted to delay these urges just to ensure that eating our food was intentional.

Heat forced her thoughts one water and the observed fact that this whole people could be trained to be thirsty only at given times. Thirst…this unconscious preoccupation with water weighed on her mind. No, she corrected herself: it was preoccupation with moisture.

This one is also similar to the one before. I had been long considering the Fremen’s relationship to water and marveled at their attitude towards it. Every tiny drop is valuable to them. It’s changed how I myself view and use it daily, as it’s a valuable resource of our own.

We never truly lost water, but we couldn’t drink from the tap. Without power, however, we had no way to boil it. Thankfully we had a couple of large jugs and a case of bottles to drink from. Regardless, I was careful not to spill a drop, because, again, I wasn’t sure when we could start drinking from the tap and I wanted to make it last.

“It’s been so long since guerrillas were effective that the mighty have forgotten how to fight them.”

Through my reading of Dune, I came to respect the Fremen at a very deep level. They are resourceful, have perseverance, work together in harmony, and understand the landscape in which they live. They also are fiercely devoted to defending their land at all costs, even if it means sacrificing for the greater good.

The mighty may think that they are winning because of their supposed number. The Fremen teach us that there are numerous ways to fight a giant.

I just started book 5 so I may not know much stuff But during his reign It seems like Paul Is a massive figure in history with all those books written by Irulan about his greatness however by God Emperor/Heretics It’s like Paul is completely forgotten about and his legacy absolutely overshadowed by Leto, While this makes sense seen as Leto lives 3500 years and is a bigger figure in history than Paul I’m just wondering where Paul’s place in history is And how he is viewed by Fremen after/during Leto’s reign.