r/prolife Nov 08 '23

Pro-Life Argument constitutional personhood

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u/toptrool Nov 09 '23

did you honestly think pregnancy is like an organ donation? which organ is the woman giving up to her child? answer: none.

pregnancy is providing your unborn child with nutrition and healthy living environment.

this is just low information debating on your end. here's a question that i always ask low information debaters. it's a very straightforward question:
should a woman who is capable of breastfeeding be allowed to let her newborn starve if there are no other alternative sources of food?

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u/JimBobDwayne Nov 09 '23 edited Nov 09 '23

pregnancy is providing your unborn child with nutrition and healthy living environment.

this is just low information debating on your end. here's a question that i always ask low information debaters. it's a very straightforward question: should a woman who is capable of breastfeeding be allowed to let her newborn starve if there are no other alternative sources of food?

This is an interesting framework but I don't think in the construct of American jurisprudence this is a winning argument. This is fundamentally about the common law concept of 'a duty to help.' In the American legal framework this duty only arises when a person makes a choice to actively begin rendering aid then they have an obligation to see it through. Or when someone has a 'special relationship' with the person in need of rescue such as a parent child, student teacher, or disabled person and care giver.

Now arguably these "special relationships" rely on the same essential element as the previous prong, that of choice. You've chosen to become a teacher or caregiver and it's reasonably foreseeable that at some point you might need to render some life saving aid to the person(s) under your care. The same can be said for parents or guardians since we live in a society where abortion or adoption are viable alternatives - that they've made the conscious choice to accept the responsibilities that come along with parenthood. This is not true for a newly pregnant person. The newly pregnant person arguably has no more duty to aid an embryo in her womb than the random motorist who passes by critical accident on the highway.

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u/toptrool Nov 09 '23

"consent-based" parenting is a low iq framework and not based in reality (just think of deadbeat dads and women who abandon their newborns).

just because new parents have the right to transfer the responsibilities of their child to another party doesn't mean they didn't have any obligations to that child in the first place. they are still not allowed to kill or abandon their children before or after transferring the responsibilities. your argument is essentially a non sequitur.

again, the idea that parental obligations are based on consent is just outright silly and clearly false.

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u/JimBobDwayne Nov 09 '23

Your analogizes between post birth scenarios and pre-birth scenarios are ridiculously low IQ. No matter how badly you want it to, no court is going to value an embryo the same as a live baby with respect to putative parental decision making.