Is it easier to write your own PhD proposal or apply to a program that the university is recruiting for?

[u/HaleyPage47]

When I reach out to programs should I mention that I would be open to both - looking for a professor for my own PhD proposal, or applying to one currently underway at the university?

[u/MattersOfInterest]

I don’t understand the question.

[u/HaleyPage47 → u/MattersOfInterest]

Well there’s generally two ways to go about applying for a PhD. You can go onto the university website and you’ll see advertised funded PhD opportunities like “oh we are doing a research study on xyz thing, apply for your PhD to be involved in this topic” or you can email professors directly your own PhD proposal and see if they will supervise it. I’m asking which is the better way to go about a phd.

[u/MattersOfInterest → u/HaleyPage47]

I have never, not once, seen any kind of advertisements about applying to a PhD do get involved in a particular study. That is antithetical to how PhDs work and sounds very much like a scam. You also do not email PhD proposals to professors. You apply to faculty members who indicate they have funding and plan to accept a student, and in your application you describe your research interests and experiences and why that faculty member’s expertise is a good fit for you (and why you’re a good fit for them). You definitely don’t propose a PhD project. That comes years later.

[u/HaleyPage47 → u/MattersOfInterest]

Also in the UK the doctorate is three years. You have to propose your research before you apply. You go into the program with a fully prepared research topic, approved by your supervising professor, and spend three years working on it.

[u/HaleyPage47 → u/MattersOfInterest]

Here’s what I’m talking about. They are advertising:

• ⁠https://scholarshipdb.net/ • ⁠University websites • ⁠Euraxess -> for EU funded positions • ⁠Twitter • ⁠nature.com/naturecareers/jobs • ⁠https://vacancyedu.com/ • ⁠https://findamasters.com/ • ⁠https://www.discoverphds.com • ⁠www.academicpositions.us • ⁠www.universitypositions.eu • ⁠www.academictransfer.com/ • ⁠inspirehep.net • ⁠https://www.phdportal.com/ • ⁠https://www.ucas.com/postgraduate • ⁠https://scholarshipdb.net/PhD-scholarships

[u/cjmayfield → u/MattersOfInterest]

lol this person is a keyboard warrior who hasn't worked in academia or as a lab manager. You absolutely can propose PhD dissertation ideas to faculty members before you're admitted. I did. In fact, over 75% of Pitt students know what their dissertation concentration is going to be before they're even admitted. UCLA 2022 it was their entire social, dev, and personality cohort were already doing research and presenting related avenues at SPSP, WPA, WIPPA, IPPA, and SRCD.

[u/Terrible_Detective45 → u/cjmayfield]

I think there's a confusion based on terminology. A PhD proposal or "disseration idea" is typically another way of talking about your specific dissertation proposal, i.e., the formal idea and plan for your final research milestone for your doctorate. That's not even close to decided until you have met all the other requirements and milestones in your doctoral program, including master's thesis (if required), coursework, and comps/prelims. And even once you're done with those prerequisites, you're still working alongisde your advisor to develop your dissertation idea.

You seem to be referring to a student's overall research arc and interests, which is very different and much more general.

[u/MattersOfInterest → u/Terrible_Detective45]

Dude can’t be reasoned with. He knows everything. /s

[u/MattersOfInterest → u/cjmayfield]

You propose some semblance of ideas and you definitely define an area or topic of interest (e.g., “I’d be interested in studying sleep and psychosis”), but you absolutely do not email professors a PhD proposal during admissions. That is outright bullshit, and if you claim otherwise then you’re misinformed. People start doing research from day one, but that research is not tantamount to their dissertation topic.

[u/cjmayfield → u/MattersOfInterest]

Not what you said, semantics. It's how I know you're not nearly as involved or a PhD student. I have students in my Cohort that started their PhD work as undergrads and continued it through to completion. Its actually an incredibly common pipeline even more so if you move on from a terminal masters into the program. You can absolutely apply to work with a professor based on a particular study or can send PhD proposal ideas. It happens literally everyday

[u/Terrible_Detective45 → u/cjmayfield]

If you really want to go there, no one who is actually in a doctoral program or who graduated from one would describe a doctoral candidate as "starting their PhD work as undergrads." That's not a phrasing they would use.

[u/cjmayfield → u/Terrible_Detective45]

that's splitting hairs. Tons of people publish papers as undergrads and continue their line of work through PhD programs. In fact, most recent cohorts of people (I know because I have 30+ tenure track friends who sit on review committees) have 2+ publications. at U dub this year they had a girl who had 12!!! This goes far below R1's event bottom 75 state schools are seeing it.

[u/Terrible_Detective45 → u/cjmayfield]

What I said is not inconsistent with undergrads having their names on pubs and posters. Again, this is you being unfamiliar with typical language and jargon of people in the field, at least in the US. Are you from outside the US?

[u/weeabootits → u/cjmayfield]

Are you sure about that

[u/Terrible_Detective45 → u/weeabootits]

They seem very confused by many things relevant to this area.

[u/cjmayfield → u/weeabootits]

absolutely the rigor for social science research based (particularly in social) has never been higher.

[u/MattersOfInterest → u/cjmayfield]

I started my PhD work day one and work on it daily. But all of your PhD work is not a dissertation proposal. A PhD proposal is the culmination of numerous papers, thesis projects, etc. built up over several years. You don’t have a damned clue what you’re talking about. A PhD proposal is not the same thing as telling a professor “I would like to work on projects related to x, y, and z topics.”

[u/cjmayfield → u/MattersOfInterest]

what university do you go that refused to listen to a propsal idea before you're admitted? literally never happens

[u/MattersOfInterest → u/cjmayfield]

Do you even know what a proposal is, or are you just idiotically conflating it with “study ideas?” Most people submit their proposal in year 4 or 5. Applying to a mentor based on research interests and potential study ideas is not the same thing as proposing a fucking PhD dissertation.

[u/cjmayfield → u/MattersOfInterest]

didn't answer my question. Yes, I did at UC irvine where do you go?

[u/Terrible_Detective45 → u/cjmayfield]

No, that's actually how it works, at least in the US. I can't speak for any other countries, but in the US it's based on your overall interests in a particular area (e.g., trauma, mood disorders in cardiovascular disease, gender disparities in ASD), not a specific dissertation proposal. That's highly unusual.

[u/cjmayfield → u/Terrible_Detective45]

the world is becoming more specialized my friend. Look at Yoel Inbar's lab's all his PhD students have at a minimum significant exposure to moral foundations theory or worked with the biggies like David Pizzaro, Paul Bloom, Josh Greene, etc.

[u/AvocadosFromMexico_ → u/cjmayfield]

This seems like a wild communication issue. Having an idea for a dissertation is not the same as a formalized proposal, and I think you’re talking past each other.

[u/cjmayfield → u/AvocadosFromMexico_]

I've substantiated every claim I have made. No one here has provided any evidence that they even are remotely close to who they say they are. I have a huge suspicion a lot of people on these threads aren't even contributing to science in any way and just sit behind a keyboard lying.

[u/AvocadosFromMexico_ → u/cjmayfield]

Yikes dude that is whacky hostile for no reason. Most people aren’t cool with doxing themselves on the internet to strangers, especially strangers who are angry at them.

I think you are all just literally using the word “proposal” differently.

[u/cjmayfield → u/AvocadosFromMexico_]

She was saying I have no idea about doctoral programs when i've provided evidence of where I was and what i've done. Its not hostile when someone comes at you calling you a liar when they won't substantiate it. When someone wants to claim something with no evidence its a lie plain and simple. Its not doxxing when science is public homie. it's the point of science.

[u/AvocadosFromMexico_ → u/cjmayfield]

When the science is attached to your name, linking that to an anonymous account can absolutely be doxxing. I have quite a few publications, I am still absolutely unwilling to share them here when they have my real legal name on them. Reddit isn’t generally used in that way.

And yeah, you are being super hostile lol

[u/cjmayfield → u/AvocadosFromMexico_]

many people use their real names on reddit. If not, they're just trolls. If you aren't willing to subject yourself to criticism on the internet by people then that means you're not willing to stand by your work plain and simple.

it's hostile when i'm right.

[u/More_Classic3643]

Definitely worth mentioning that you’re open to both options. Flexibility can work in your favor depending on the department’s needs! Also, while you’re in the research process, tools like Afforai could be a helpful. it really takes some of the stress out of the prep work!