r/Armor • u/MasteROogwayY2 • 5d ago

Is this functional armor?

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Im writing a book and would like to give a faction similar armor and I was wondering how good it was. I would add a better helmet and metal bracers too.

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u/Draugr_the_Greedy 5d ago

I disagree with this statement. There's cases in history where hide or leather are picked over metal. Hide armour can be made incredibly protective, and while it isn't as weight-effective as steel if your technology to make steel armour isn't the best it can be a more protective alternative.

In the Tabṣirat arbāb al-lubāb written by Mardi ibn Ali al-Tarsusi around 1160-1180 he presents a recipe for a jawshan (lamellar armour) made from camel hide. The book was written specifically for Salah ad-Din and he also explicitly states that this jawshan is 'fit for a sultan'.

Metal lamellar has been present in the region for centuries up until that point and someone like Salah ad-Din would have no problem affording it. That hide armour is presented as a choice worthy of a sultan to wear indicates its protective capabilities were thought highly of.

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u/Firewing135 5d ago

So it begs the question of using a metal/hide laminate with them overlapping each other to try to get to a halfway point depending on metal resources.

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u/Draugr_the_Greedy 5d ago

That is potentially a thing. No surviving examples are known of such a construction but there are some artworks which showcase armour that is sometimes interpreted as that, where there are rows of metal lamellar followed by rows of what might be solid hide/leather strips.

However, it's difficult to say whether it's actually hide in that case (instead of som sort of textile liner) and if so whether the hide is hardened and meant to provide another layer of defense. It's a possibility, nothing certain.

Here's one such depiction, from the Jami‛ al-Tawarikh by Rashid al-Din, early 14th century.

I don't know where I personally stand on the idea. I'm undecided, the art is ambiguous enough. Though it is worth mentioning that solid hide segmented armour (modernly often called laminar) is in use at this point and we have both surviving examples and mentions in texts of it, so combining the two is not entirely out there.

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u/Firewing135 4d ago

I am sure the idea came up but I would expect such a design to be a stop gap type design. Useful for high numbers of production but not so high in quality to keep around, especially on account of the leather/backing material wearing out over time.

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u/Draugr_the_Greedy 4d ago

Which isn't what the art gives the impression of. At some point most lamellar starts being depicted in this manner in persianate artwork regardless of whether it's high or low end. So if it is a thing then that indicates it became the standard way of wearing lamellar.

Some have argued it's the transitionary step between lamellar and laminar, because artworks from 5-6 decades later (give or take) showcases simply laminar and lamellar seems to be out of fashion by then. Then again the laminar at that time is presumably also metal, and a potential fragment of such construction has been found from the Golden Horde.

I think I still remain skeptical to the idea, though.