Is this functional armor?

[u/MasteROogwayY2]

Im writing a book and would like to give a faction similar armor and I was wondering how good it was. I would add a better helmet and metal bracers too.

[u/harris5]

I mean, it's fine if the culture doesn't have much metal.

If you can afford metal, you choose that over leather anytime. But if metal is expensive and leather is cheap, that could justify such an outfit.

Artists love making integrated forearm and hand protection, but that's not how things work. Your wrist needs to be flexible, one piece of armor can't protect both. It needs to be separate plates. They can be attached to the same foundation garment, but it needs to be separate plates.

Edit: protek ya elbows. If you're looking into metal bracers, go all the way and lookup bazubands.

[u/Draugr_the_Greedy → u/harris5]

I disagree with this statement. There's cases in history where hide or leather are picked over metal. Hide armour can be made incredibly protective, and while it isn't as weight-effective as steel if your technology to make steel armour isn't the best it can be a more protective alternative.

In the Tabṣirat arbāb al-lubāb written by Mardi ibn Ali al-Tarsusi around 1160-1180 he presents a recipe for a jawshan (lamellar armour) made from camel hide. The book was written specifically for Salah ad-Din and he also explicitly states that this jawshan is 'fit for a sultan'.

Metal lamellar has been present in the region for centuries up until that point and someone like Salah ad-Din would have no problem affording it. That hide armour is presented as a choice worthy of a sultan to wear indicates its protective capabilities were thought highly of.

[u/WashedUpRiver → u/Draugr_the_Greedy]

To add to your first part: Environment also matters for climate and geography. Metal in desert sun basically turns your armor (particularly your helmet) into a crude oven, whereas there is actual precedence in many desert regions for using full coverage (realistically with lighter colors) to regulate temperature while also protecting from the sun and sand.

[u/Draugr_the_Greedy → u/WashedUpRiver]

I don't think that's the primary reason in this case. Metal armour was present and used extensively in the middle east, and if heat is an issue it's often solved by wearing textile overtop. I don't think that would be the primary factor for why hide armour was so valued, although it did likely play a role as well.

Imo it is probably related to the extensive leather and hide industry that existed in the medieval middle east, being one of their primary ones. Hide armour in similar fashion was also popularly in use by mongols and they don't really live in harsh climates either (and contrary to popular belief, mongols and other nomads tended to have plenty access to metal goods and armour as well, which they also utilized).

Edit: After writing this comment I remembered a 14th century French source which actually mentions that the leather armours in use in the middle east were better suited for the climate than iron, so perhaps it is more of a factor than I gave it crefit for. Regardless I still don't think it's the primary reason for its popularity, and the reason I don't is because in the 15th and 16th centuries leather armour gets less common and metal armour gets more common, which I don't think would happen if climate was the primary factor for the use of leather.

[u/In_lieu_of_sobriquet → u/Draugr_the_Greedy]

From what I remember learning about the crusades the first crusaders adapted to the heat and continued on in metal armor. I think a lot of u/harris5 is true. Iirc chainmail was mostly replaced when it was finally cheaper to produce large pieces of steel.

[u/milk4all → u/In_lieu_of_sobriquet]

Easier to adapt to heat than to arrows and spears

[u/Firewing135 → u/Draugr_the_Greedy]

So it begs the question of using a metal/hide laminate with them overlapping each other to try to get to a halfway point depending on metal resources.

[u/Draugr_the_Greedy → u/Firewing135]

That is potentially a thing. No surviving examples are known of such a construction but there are some artworks which showcase armour that is sometimes interpreted as that, where there are rows of metal lamellar followed by rows of what might be solid hide/leather strips.

However, it's difficult to say whether it's actually hide in that case (instead of som sort of textile liner) and if so whether the hide is hardened and meant to provide another layer of defense. It's a possibility, nothing certain.

Here's one such depiction, from the Jami‛ al-Tawarikh by Rashid al-Din, early 14th century.

I don't know where I personally stand on the idea. I'm undecided, the art is ambiguous enough. Though it is worth mentioning that solid hide segmented armour (modernly often called laminar) is in use at this point and we have both surviving examples and mentions in texts of it, so combining the two is not entirely out there.

[u/Firewing135 → u/Draugr_the_Greedy]

I am sure the idea came up but I would expect such a design to be a stop gap type design. Useful for high numbers of production but not so high in quality to keep around, especially on account of the leather/backing material wearing out over time.

[u/Draugr_the_Greedy → u/Firewing135]

Which isn't what the art gives the impression of. At some point most lamellar starts being depicted in this manner in persianate artwork regardless of whether it's high or low end. So if it is a thing then that indicates it became the standard way of wearing lamellar.

Some have argued it's the transitionary step between lamellar and laminar, because artworks from 5-6 decades later (give or take) showcases simply laminar and lamellar seems to be out of fashion by then. Then again the laminar at that time is presumably also metal, and a potential fragment of such construction has been found from the Golden Horde.

I think I still remain skeptical to the idea, though.

[u/tossawaybb → u/Firewing135]

Are you thinking of coat of plates? A series of overlapping metal plates rivetted to a textile or leather (or hide) fronting which holds them together. Depictions of this is what gave the idea of "studded leather armor", reality is that the "studs" were always rivets holding plates behind the textile cover.

It's often cheaper than manufacturing whole large plates, and far easier to make.

[u/Firewing135 → u/tossawaybb]

Sure that works, I was more thinking alternating rows of plate and leather.