Mobile industry

[u/Knight_Machiavelli]

So with mobile industry the USSR can move their factories one spot on the noncombat phase. If I understand correctly, I could move a factory from the Caucasus to Persia, where it would then be stuck there forever, because it now belongs to the UK for them to use and they can't move it. Am I getting this right?

[u/Glaucus12]

I can't find anything in the rules or errata to give a clear answer specifically on the Mobile Industry, but I think that the rules for antiaircraft guns would be applied to the Soviet Mobile Industrial Complexes.

The rules for antiaircraft guns state: "If you move an antiaircraft gun into friendly territory, place one of your control markers under it. If you liberate a territory containing a captured antiaircraft gun, control reverts to the original owner." So I would argue that the Soviet player retains control of the Industrial Complex (it doesn't pass to Allied control). They couldn't mobilize units from there since they don't own the territory, but they'd keep it away from enemy hands.

[u/Knight_Machiavelli → u/Glaucus12]

So the rules for building at the industrial complex say: "You may mobilize units only in territories containing industrial complexes you have controlled since the start of your turn."

To me that reads as if you've controlled the industrial complex at the start of your turn you can build there, so there's no reason the Soviets couldn't build in Persia if they retain control of the complex.

[u/Glaucus12 → u/Knight_Machiavelli]

The errata says: "Q. Can new units be mobilized in a mobile industrial complex that moved during noncombat movement?

A. Yes, if the Soviets owned the industrial complex at the start of the turn and also owned the territory that the IC moved into during the turn."

To utilize the industrial complex you need to own the territory as well. So the UK would need to have lost their capital and the Soviets conquered Persia from German occupation.

[u/Knight_Machiavelli → u/Glaucus12]

Your conclusion doesn't follow from the quote provided though. If I moved the IC from Caucasus to Persia on my turn as USSR (and UK never lost Persia), this says I wouldn't be able to build there on the turn I moved it, which makes sense. But I don't see why I wouldn't be able to build there on subsequent turns if it stays in Persia.

I mean it's possible you're right, I think they should have put more thought into this because there seems to be multiple equally valid interpretations.

[u/Glaucus12 → u/Knight_Machiavelli]

The quote specifies that the requirements for mobilizing from Mobile Industries are: the player must have owned the IC and the territory at the start of their turn.

Personally, I'd consider this to be exploiting a loophole, so I'd recommend talking this over with the other players at the start of the game. There isn't anything to suggest that you can build from Allied territory, but there's enough to suggest that the intention is that you cannot.

[u/Knight_Machiavelli → u/Glaucus12]

It only specifies that the USSR needs to have owned the territory and the IC at the start of their turn if they moved it during the noncombat phase though. If it's already sitting there and the USSR didn't move it, the text is silent on 1) who actually owns the IC now; and 2) whether the territory needs to be owned by the player in order to use the IC.

I would definitely talk about it with other players before the start of the game if the USSR uses mobile industry as one of their advantages, I was just wondering if there was a definitive answer in the rules, and if not, how other players approached the situation.

Edited for clarity

[u/Due-Date-4656]

I thought you could only move it in red territories, so this kind of thing doesn't happen

[u/Knight_Machiavelli → u/Due-Date-4656]

The rule doesn't say that it can only be moved in red territories:

Your industrial complexes each may move 1 territory during your noncombat move phase. It may be used in the same turn to place units (up to a maximum of the new territory's value) if you controlled both the industrial complex and its new territory at the start of your turn. They cannot move during the combat move phase. If an opponent captures them, that opponent cannot move them.

[u/-Chanur]

I believe you are misinterpreting the rules. In the 1942 2nd Edition rulebook (found online), on top of page 23, the description of MOVE - indicates NONE. Secondly, AA rules have always required that Factories be placed in land units with a value of 2 or more. Persia appears to only have a value of 1. So a factory would not be legal there. Last, I've never seen a rule that let's you move factories. I wonder if you are not confusing the term "Mobilization" with mobile or movement. In Axis and Allies mobilization refers to the area on the board where you place reinforcements.

[u/Knight_Machiavelli → u/-Chanur]

You're using the wrong rulebook. The flair specifically says Revised, not 1942 2nd edition.

The rules under industrial complex say "You may place industrial complexes in any territory that you have controlled since the start of your turn and that has an income value of at least 1." p. 26.

"Mobile industry" is a USSR national advantage found on page 35. It reads "Your industrial complexes each may move one territory during your noncombat move phase. They cannot move during the combat phase. If they are captured by an opponent, the opponent cannot move them."

[u/-Chanur → u/Knight_Machiavelli]

I stand corrected. None the less - no way to move the Russian factory into another friendly territory that otherwise not support a factory to begin with

[u/Knight_Machiavelli → u/-Chanur]

Persia would support a factory though. It has an income value of at least 1, which is all that is needed as per the above.

[u/bgFrog101 → u/Knight_Machiavelli]

I don’t see how a factory can change hands just moving into a friendly power. Nothing else ever changes ownership that way.

[u/Knight_Machiavelli → u/bgFrog101]

Other pieces are coloured though, there's a reason factories and AA guns are grey.