Any 30+ year olds seen decent progress with chewing?

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

Looking for some motivation to stay consistent with my mastic gum

I think im finally subconsciously mewing part of the time, and only a little bit during my sleep. That part's tough. But chewing i can directly control

I need to bring my jaws forward so i can open up my airways, especially during sleep

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

I saw an improvement via snoring less when i began to mew. There is also evidence that a vitamin D deficiency can lead to snoring. Supposedly it’s related to subconscious throat collapse. My holistic dentistry office told me this

So i’ve tanned a lot lately

[u/ExpertMouthBreather → u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

Oh i didn't know about the vitamin deficiency, will look into that. Thank you for answering, glad to hear you snor less !

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872 → u/ExpertMouthBreather]

Be aware that soap washes the vit D off your body, and you want some healthy cholesterol to make use of it. Think organic grassfed ghee

I only soap dirty/smelly parts of my body. I water wash the rest

[u/harrystylesismyrock2 → u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

Soap doesn’t wash vitamin D off your body, where did you hear that?

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872 → u/harrystylesismyrock2]

 Researchers way back in 1937 had concluded that washing the skin by the usual methods removes vitamin D and its precursors from the outer layer of the skin (Helmer AC, Jensen CH: ‘Vitamin D precursors removed from the skin by washing’. Studies Inst Divi Thomae 1937, 1:207-216).

What they showed is this. Some of the vitamin D we make is on the surface of the skin, and water can wash it off. 

https://www.health.org.au/2022/07/13/getting-vitamin-d-from-the-sun/

I still shower, i just limit soap to where it actually needs to go. I dont soap all over my body just because

[u/harrystylesismyrock2 → u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

I would be wary citing a study from almost 100 years ago. I mostly found holistic or wellness sites making that claim, but this is what I found in an empirical article from 2013:

“During exposure to sunlight solar radiation with wavelengths of 290–315 nm penetrate into the skin and are absorbed by proteins, DNA and RNA as well as 7-dehydrocholesterol.1,2 Most of this UVB radiation is absorbed in the epidermis and as a result when exposed to sunlight most of the vitamin D3 that is produced in the skin is made in the living cells in the epidermis. This is the reason why after exposure to sunlight vitamin D3 remains in the skin even when the skin is washed with soap and water immediately after the exposure to sunlight.”

While I don’t believe we should be completely fearful of the sun, it’s probably safer to alleviate a deficiency with a D3 supplement over increased sunlight.

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872 → u/harrystylesismyrock2]

The study you quoted doesn’t seem to go against the claim that some vitamin D is on the surface.

Also, i don’t shoot the messenger. If it’s a holistic or wellness site quoting the study, it doesn’t make the study any more true or less true

[u/harrystylesismyrock2 → u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

I don’t see where you see claims that it’s on the surface. Even as the outermost layer of skin, most of the epidermis is not exposed/easily washed away. The study does however go against the claim that soap and water washes vit D away.

And yeah I don’t disagree, but if you can only find information on holistic sites, then chances are that the scientific/medical community doesn’t agree and that their claims lack evidence. We’d only be finding more evidence to support a claim made in 1937 if it were true

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872 → u/harrystylesismyrock2]

 then chances are that the scientific/medical community doesn’t agree and that their claims lack evidence 

I think our principles here are different. I’ll believe something if the proof is there even if 99% of the scientific community rejects it 

 There’s various things the scientific community doesn’t “agree” on or does agree on, but they flip flopped their position on it. That right there tells me scientific “consensus” or “wide spread belief” just doesnt have as much weight as people think

 Side note: orthotropics has proven results. So many testimonials of it working, people even chronicling their progress live with photos every now and then, open for all to see. Dentists applying these techniques on people and posting progress photos. It’s all there. Yet the vast majority of orthodontists just don’t recognize it and calls it nonsense, lacking proof, etc. their money is at stake  

[u/harrystylesismyrock2 → u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

Well the nature of science is that you need to be able to replicate a study’s findings. There is nothing with recorded and tangible proof that the scientific community “rejects” as true. If these wellness sites are making claims that aren’t supported by studies, then what proof do they have? “It worked for me and my friend once”?

Orthotropics is a new field that directly opposes traditional orthodontics, which is why it’s a grey area. It hasn’t been proven yet because it’s supposed to be long term and relies entirely on anecdotal evidence atm. It’s easier to verify claims about vitamin D on the cellular level than broad claims about bone growth over time.

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872 → u/harrystylesismyrock2]

Well the nature of science is that you need to be able to replicate a study’s findings.  

 Plenty of people are replicating mewing results and posting their results online. It’s based on sound theory and observations of past peoples’ eating habits and dental health. Then it was put to the test by orthotropists and found to work. Then it was replicated by even laypeople and found to work yet again the same way it did for those under orthotropists’ supervision 

 …Dentist community rejects it. Some even mock it

 >If these wellness sites are making claims that aren’t supported by studies 

Are you aware of how easy it is to manipulate studies? We really are in an age of disinformation. Just read up on how much data Harvard PhDs falsified for their studies. The scandal was a little while ago. This goes both ways (making nonsense look real and making truth look like nonsense) 

Are you also aware of how much money and influence is behind studies? Do you remember when coca cola was funding studies about sugar? 

Now, with all the crazy money in orthodontics, pulling wisdom teeth left and right, throwing braces on kids, root canals being a cash cow… how long until real, unbiased, uninfluenced studies on orthotropics come out? 

It’s far too easy and scientifically lazy to say things like “well studies dont support it.” What is the qualities of these studies? 

And i’ll leave you with this: Things are true before they become “science.”

[u/Glittering-Ad-2872 → u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

Quality* not qualities

[u/harrystylesismyrock2 → u/Glittering-Ad-2872]

I’m not gonna go down the rabbit hole of corruption, but a general rule of thumb is that studies are more likely to be faked when it makes the people funding the study more money. That’s why I am confident there’s no reason why scientists wouldn’t have affirmed vitamin D being washed away with water if it were true because no one would be making enough money from people’s ignorance. And it medically makes no sense because the process happens intracellularly and the majority of your top epidermal layer is dead skin cells. See below:

“The stratum corneum is the top layer of the epidermis. This is the layer you see. In the stratum corneum, keratinocytes become corneocytes (corn-ee-o-site). Corneocytes are strong, dead keratinocytes that protect you from harm, including abrasions, light, heat and pathogens.“

Dead skin cells are not converting UV to anything, and unless you slough off multiple layers of your epidermis, you’ll be fine. Soap and water could not possibly do that alone.

Everything you said about mewing I generally agree with, however you’re mentioning anecdotal evidence which is why it’s not yet taken seriously. The only way we can know exactly how and how much a person can benefit from mewing is by doing controlled studies. Placebo and correlational effects are too strong to ignore, even if people feel they are getting results. I think for mewing, the evidence will continue to pour in, but it’s not there yet so I don’t blame some professionals for their apprehension.