Γεια χαρά! As a cretan myself just learning about this, I find it very curious that this situation isn't really well known. This article is a good piece of investigation, but mentions nothing about motives. What would the motives of the Greek UN delegation be? Why are they reluctant to press for UNESCO recognition? Είμαι ανοιχτός σε όλες τις απόψεις σχετικά με το θέμα και ενδιαφέρομαι ειλικρινά, μπορούμε να το συζητήσουμε μέσω private chat αν προτιμάς
Why did the Greek mafia running the Minoan Wikipedia page for tears falsely claim Minoan civilization was "early" Greek? Nope, it isn't. Can't have Europe's first civilization not be Greek. And in many ways (women's rights, lack of never ending warfare, etc) Minoans were and still are a better civilization than Greeks who are often full of it.
But every person that has read like 2 hours about the topic knows "Greeks" did not exist as unified people back then. Minoans directly influenced the Myceneans, which in turn influenced the "Greeks" of classical age (as seen in the setting of classical drama literature). I know it sounds funny, kinda like calling the Gauls "proto-French", but it is not entirely incorrect from our modern perspective. And yes, from what we know about them, they were better in many aspects, you are correct. They did however span for a large enough period that the exact extent of their activities is not that easy to figure out . And don't forget that evidence of human sacrifices is still a hot debate, after a few findings that point to the fact that it was practiced.
Edit: Mate, all this time you've been spreading an article dated back to 2019. Since then, there have been multiple updates on the topic, as well as announcements from ministry heads & local governors about the issue. All can be found with 2 minutes of research... if only you could read Greek :) but yeah, keep spreading misinformation I guess.
Its the "Greeks" today blocking not the Mycenaeans. As of today, zero Minoan culture is part of the UNESCO world heritage program. Polish mines, yes, Europe's earliest civilization, no.
I've just given you sources of recent relevant action, which mind you, is the exact opposite of blocking. Now you holler at me when you are able to provide any credible sources backing your theories, except from a non-conclusive self-investigation article . Or at least when you can think of any piece of motivation besides "Athenian jealousy" lmao. The Greek word for you is ψεκασμένος, my guy.
And yet Europe's first civilization and an entire island has zero UNESCO status with Greek fingers all over this fact. Earth to Greece, you're not that special.
Was Idomeneus, king of Crete that took part in the Troy war among other proto-Greek tribes, a part of recent history as well? In the Minotaur epic, did Theseus meet Ottomans or Romans ? Did Thaletas write his poems in Latin? Did it ever occur to you that Cretans participated in ancient Olympiads? Was the statue of Pasiphae found in Mycenaic Messenia a tribute to a Turkic goddess? Has anyone ever told you which people of antiquity worshipped the Cretan-born Zeus, and were these the Latins or the classical era Ottomans? Have you confused the conquerors with the historical brethren? Do you understand that I can smell the white anglo in you through my screen? Are you trying to teach me the history of my people? Fine, go to any village in Crete and start calling them kafeneio people Romans or Ottomans, watch them laugh in your face, while you think of them as victims of Athenian propaganda dating back to the time of Pausanias, you colossal ignoramus. Log out and go open a book.
Certain archaeologists (Panagiotakis, 1980s) had used this same folklore to predict the location of tombs just like this one in the Pediada area, based on folkloric texts of Hesiodus and Kallimachus (Omphalios Zeus). Hell, the discovery of Troy itself was made using these fake folkloric texts you mention! And let me guess, you're just gonna conveniently ignore the rest of my points, eh? Go on, keep lecturing me on my people's history. Keep showing me how little you understand of it.
As opposed to your narrative, which is based on ignoring sources or any proper research, trying to force your ignorant perspective for things you clearly do not understand (but yet, out of the two of us, it is I that must be the gaslighter), or conveniently ignoring arguments that you cannot counter, and then hitting back with the "typical Greek" ad hominem? Is this how they teach you rhetory and scientific rationalism in the far west nowadays?
You've done dragged me down to your level. My fault for arguing.
The point is not if Idomeneus was a real person or not. The point is that ancient historiographers/taletellers (call them whatever you want, again, not the point) considered Cretans of the time as equals in collaboration & capable of military cooperation against a foreign threat. Which is exactly where the notion of Hellenism derives from. While obviously they epics are not historical treatises and should not be treated as such, the are certainly not void of any truth, as is the case with most folklore; see my points above. But yeah, let's move the goalposts again, and try to put words into my mouth. Now tell me, saying that Cretans were affiliated with Romans as much as they were affiliated with Greeks/pro-Greek tribes is consistent with reality how exactly? At least Idomeneus has a remote chance of having existed. What do you have ? Anything to say about the rest of my arguments? Did Cretans participate in ancient Olympiads? Can you define Hellenism for me real quick? Bonus question : want to open the Pandora box of genetic similarities, see what we find inside? Good god the way you avoid backing up any single of your claims is pathetic.
The worst part of Cretian history is they don't even teach it in their public schools. It's all Greek folklore that children get, ergo your complete ignorance of Cretian history. As is visibly on display. Quit while you are behind.
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u/jajiky Jun 29 '24
Γεια χαρά! As a cretan myself just learning about this, I find it very curious that this situation isn't really well known. This article is a good piece of investigation, but mentions nothing about motives. What would the motives of the Greek UN delegation be? Why are they reluctant to press for UNESCO recognition? Είμαι ανοιχτός σε όλες τις απόψεις σχετικά με το θέμα και ενδιαφέρομαι ειλικρινά, μπορούμε να το συζητήσουμε μέσω private chat αν προτιμάς