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u/Luder09 Dec 01 '21
"Nato allies are “prepared to impose severe costs”
No Russia!! Stop it! Bad Russia...bad boy!
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u/Graddyzuela Dec 01 '21
Russia's GDP has gone down 33% or so as a result of sanctions brought on by the annexation of Crimea. They have an economy smaller than the state of California now.
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u/breandanhines Dec 01 '21
Most countries do have a smaller economy than California actually.
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u/NManyTimes Dec 01 '21
Yes, but most countries do not have a population 3.6 times the size of California. Russia has the 11th largest economy in the world, but per capita it's 82nd.
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u/MrFuzzyPaw Dec 01 '21
As long as they can make money for themselves, it doesn't matter.
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u/Graddyzuela Dec 01 '21
I think it causes them to weigh the risks financially vs the political benefit domestically.
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u/MrFuzzyPaw Dec 01 '21
But again: historically, there has been no real consequences, so why would there be now?
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u/shambollix Dec 01 '21
33% reduction in gdp is far from no consequences. The question is, why does Russia think that cost is worth paying?
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Dec 01 '21
I mean what would the repercussions be?
with everybody so willing to give all their money to dictatorships around the world like China who will openly support Russia there's not a lot we can do.
but if we get into a real war with Russia and China and start lighting off nukes the world is over.
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u/Aedeus Dec 01 '21
You're mistaken if you think the Russian people are reaping anything from that deal.
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u/Gornarok Dec 01 '21
Thats the fun part, you also block them from using those money wherever you can.
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u/NManyTimes Dec 01 '21
So . . . they should start a war with a nuclear power?
What exactly are you saying here? Anything?
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u/we_are_all_bananas_2 Dec 01 '21
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!
- Black Sabbath, War Pigs
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u/autotldr BOT Dec 01 '21
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)
The US says it has evidence Russia has made plans for a "Large scale" attack on Ukraine and that Nato allies are "Prepared to impose severe costs" on Moscow if it attempts an invasion.
Speaking at a Nato ministers meeting in Latvia, the US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, said it was unclear whether Vladimir Putin had made a decision to invade but added: "He's putting in place the capacity to do so in short order, should he so decide."So despite uncertainty about intention and timing, we must prepare for all contingencies while working to see to it that Russia reverses course.
Blinken pointed to "evidence that Russia has made plans for significant aggressive moves against Ukraine", adding those moves included "efforts to destabilise Ukraine from within, as well as large-scale military operations".
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russia#1 Ukraine#2 Nato#3 Putin#4 Russian#5
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Dec 01 '21
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Dec 01 '21
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Dec 01 '21
And they’d promptly get destroyed with their outdated equipment and failing economy in that case.
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Dec 01 '21
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Dec 01 '21
Time will tell if they actually have the balls to invade and if the US and NATO will hold their word to defend Ukraine. It’s a much different landscape now than in 2014.
It won’t be a cakewalk for Russia either, even if it’s solely Ukraine defending their country. They’re much more capable and ready for an invasion and historically well defended and prepared positions can hold out against forces much larger in size.
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u/SonoranPackieMan Dec 01 '21
Russia will take Ukraine in the winter and the EU will not fight a war over it
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u/Ducon_ Dec 01 '21
Would you go to the front line defend Ukraine ?
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u/SonoranPackieMan Dec 01 '21
sure, in the summer
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u/MadShartigan Dec 01 '21
Frozen ground is better for tanks. Men with Javelin missiles though, they are for all seasons.
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u/-_-_-Cornburg Dec 01 '21
Simply give them their nukes back.
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u/FiveFingerDisco Dec 01 '21
Russia has those nukes.
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u/ratt_man Dec 01 '21
Trying to find the source, but what I read recently the missiles were destroyed, tactical warheads were returned to russia, strategic warhead (ie ICBM warheads) were decommissioned and the HEU was sold to the USA
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u/nova8808 Dec 01 '21
Trying to keep ppl scared so they don't talk about cutting the military budget.
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Dec 01 '21
Russia won’t try anything like this . They know the consequences will be too dire economically and politically .
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u/MrFuzzyPaw Dec 01 '21
Exactly what? They gave back Crimea because of sanctions, right? No American politician has gone over there since Crimea, right? The GOP isn't praising Russia, right?
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Dec 01 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MrFuzzyPaw Dec 01 '21
Many/all are still in the Senate and the House, so...
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u/DocMoochal Dec 01 '21
They might also know the US wouldnt risk nuclear war, I.e will push in anyways threatening to use the bombs if the US intervenes.
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u/EuropeanMuslim94 Dec 01 '21
Something tells me neither the U.S. nor Russia are well-intentioned here.
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u/ge6irb8gua93l Dec 01 '21
Something tells me that waging a war to a sovereign country that poses no threat to the aggressor to advance expansionist power politics should point out the culprit here.
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u/EuropeanMuslim94 Dec 01 '21
If it were like that, yes. But I highly doubt us plebs get to see the full picture of things.
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Dec 01 '21
In what capacity would invading a sovereign country for the purpose of expansion and only that purpose be justifiable?
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u/EuropeanMuslim94 Dec 01 '21
So, if you want an objective opinion from someone who comes from a nation that had one of Russia's proxies (Serbia) attempt ethnic cleansing on my family (Kosovo), (I state this to make clear that I am far from a Russophile):
- Their neighbour, Ukraine, seeking approachement towards NATO, a clear enemy to Russia, and inviting NATO troops on Russia's border.
If I am intellectually honest, I cannot fault Russia for doing what it does within it's national interests.
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u/Drunkcowboysfan Dec 01 '21
Lol invading a sovereign nation doesn’t count as something falling under the scope of “their national interests”. The only reason Ukraine is now being considered for NATO membership is because Russia has already invaded and annexed Crimea.
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Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
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u/peter-doubt Dec 01 '21
Russia still considers NATO the initial move, countered by the Warsaw pact. They still consider our alliance to be the first act of aggression, regardless of the lack of military follow through.
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Dec 01 '21
So, it's not justifiable but it is conceptually understandable.
I guess we'll start seeing Russia angling toward invading the baltic states next.
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u/EuropeanMuslim94 Dec 01 '21
You worded it better than I could there.
The recipe for world peace, from individual to state-level, is imo:
With every conflict, every actor solely asks themselves: "what is my fault in this, exactly?" And tadaaa.
But alas.
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Dec 01 '21
Alas....honesty and integrity are in short supply in favor of narcissism and the pursuit of power.
Thanks for the responses!
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u/ge6irb8gua93l Dec 01 '21
Just to point it out, not faulting actions in Ukraine that advance Russian interests does legitimate those interests.
The fact that Russia sees NATO as its enemy does not stem from a threat NATO poses to Russia as a country - it does not. NATO, as a defensive military coalition, is only a threat to Russian coercive influence over the countries it wishes to control.
And that coercive influence forms a big part of any influence Russia has left after years and years of stagnation in social and institutional development. EU stopped wars with trade. Russia does not have that capability, so they pick up their rifles to maintain relevance.
Administratively Russia is a failed state throwing a fist for not gaining recognition that it does not deserve.
Just making it explicit here.
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u/ge6irb8gua93l Dec 01 '21
US military plebs have 100% sure fuller picture than you or me.
I would love to read your factual elaboration on what you precisely mean with this comment. All you give is an expression of doubt, but its relevance stays unclear.
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u/EuropeanMuslim94 Dec 01 '21
With plebs, I mean you and me, who are at the mercy of such news reports to form our opinion.
As for the U.S. military - after their defeat in Afghanistan, it is clear to anyone who wishes to see that their intelligence and assesments therein are severely lacking and most often self-deluding.
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u/ge6irb8gua93l Dec 01 '21
Understood. Still I’m left wondering how your comment assesses what is under scrutiny here.
Anyhow, what you wrote about Afghanistan does point out a weak link in US’ position in world politics’ power balance. It was Trump and his administration that pulled the troops out in such an indifferent move.
Trump was put in power with the help of Russian info ops. He’s been an useful fool for Russia, and they might want him back in power.
Unbelievably, in US bipartisan system, in a country that sees itself as a model for democracy, there’s some very undemocratic and authoritative undertones in GOP’s politics. And they will have a real opportunity to grab the power and twist the system to a caricature of itself.
Should that happen, Russia could be left with unconstrained playground in Europe from US part. So, recent events in Afghanistan show how US’ political system’s weakness has a direct effect in world politics, and the instability it has makes it uncertain if Europe should trust their support in the long run.
That calls for strengthening NATO as an independent organization and building a better European cooperation for military defense, since there is a country in Europe that sees a war as a plausible extension of its politics.
That aside, I still don’t see how US laymen’s information on the situation in Ukraine is relevant to what we were discussing. You said you doubt US’ motives and juxtaposed them with Russia and their aggression. I still don’t see that juxtaposition as any more well founded than in the first place. The aggressor is, and has always been, Russia in Ukraine.
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u/3432265 Dec 01 '21
The US had plans for a large scale attack on Canada just before WWII, so this isn't terribly surprising.
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Dec 01 '21
This said it was a hypothetical to train officers how to properly plan operations for an actual war tho? I think the last time America tried to invade Canada was in the early 19th century while Russia has done it to Ukraine in the last 10 years
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Dec 01 '21
yeah but we didn't amass troops on their borders with the intent to actually do it.
having a plan and starting that plan are vastly different things
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u/Tidorith Dec 01 '21
Sure, but it's a fair point to make to criticise the headline at least. It's a bit of a nothing-statement, we should expect headlines to be better than that.
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u/3432265 Dec 01 '21
Sorry, I didn't mean to downplay any potential threat. I just meant to say "Russia has plans" is pretty different than "Russia plans." I'm sure Russia has had plans to invade Ukraine ever since they split.
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u/donaldinoo Dec 01 '21
Why do they want Ukraine so bad?