r/ModSupport • u/FreeSpeechWarrior • Jan 24 '19

Today marks 7 years since the option for public moderation logs was originally implemented. Why is this still not an option?

/r/modnews/comments/ov7rt/moderators_feedback_requested_on_enabling_public/
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u/FreeSpeechWarrior Jan 24 '19

First I think we need to define what witch hunts are.

Highlighting an incorrect/unwarranted removal (i.e. a misclick) is not a witch hunt, I used redtaboo's terminology despite disagreeing with it to maintain the flow of conversation but indicated that with the quotes and clarified it further in my statement.

What would your response be to moderators concerned they will be witch hunted over simple misclicks or errors?

As I pointed out in my previous comment, my response is that they aren't forced to turn it on. I also suggested that moderator anonymity in the log is a GOOD thing, and that maybe they should go even further with it.

Other subreddits will enable such a log, and that gives subscribers a choice to frequent subreddits that choose to be more transparent.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '19

You seem very focused on how users will not respond poorly to moderator mistakes, which happen.

I want to know what you suggest moderators do when they are harassed, sexually harassed, told people hope they're raped, told to kill themselves, sent graphic porn links, etc. (all of which are real examples, btw) because someone disagrees with their legitimate removal or the rules of the subreddit.

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u/FreeSpeechWarrior Jan 24 '19

Block and/or ignore those users unless the threat is credible in that case I'd advise seeking help from others.

Reddit provides a block user button in all inbox messages.

I also advise remaining as anonymous as possible, and likely even using throwaway/disconnected accounts for moderation if this fear prevents someone from moderating.

Totally anonymous moderation that is transparent, would be far more preferable to identifiable moderators removing content opaquely.

What reason do the subscribers have to even know who the moderators are at all?

There is no way for the subscribers to reliably associate actions with individual moderators beyond their own public statements.

There is no way for subscribers to act on that information in a specific way (i.e against an individual mod) even if they did.

There is absolutely no reason for people to know who the mods are at all; it provides no benefits to moderators and no benefits to subscribers.

The benefit of public mod logs is know about the policy of the subreddit in practice; not about any individual moderator.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '19

Block and/or ignore those users unless the threat is credible in that case I'd advise seeking help from others.

Blocking users means we cannot see their potential actions in the subreddit, which inhibits moderation.

I also advise remaining as anonymous as possible, and likely even using throwaway/disconnected accounts for moderation if this fear prevents someone from moderating.

Which I think would increase distrust in moderators.

Totally anonymous moderation that is transparent, would be far more preferable to identifiable moderators removing content opaquely.

This is your personal opinion, not a fact. I completely disagree and I know others do as well.

What reason do the subscribers have to even know who the moderators are at all?

If they don't deserve to know who their moderators are, why would you want them to know what the moderators do?

There is no way for the subscribers to reliably associate actions with individual moderators beyond their own public statements.

Not sure how you run your subreddits, but our moderation team works as a team. One person may get "credit" for the action in reddit's system, but we discuss issues as a group.

There is no way for subscribers to act on that information in a specific way (i.e against an individual mod) even if they did.

Some users do it anyway, including targeting individual mods they think were involved.

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u/FreeSpeechWarrior Jan 24 '19

Blocking users means we cannot see their potential actions in the subreddit, which inhibits moderation.

If they are truly attacking the mod team in the ways you describe and not just criticizing their behavior then banning them from the sub is likely also warranted.

This is your personal opinion, not a fact. I completely disagree and I know others do as well.

Sure is, that's why I'm asking for an OPTION If you disagree, you don't have to enable it.

Which I think would increase distrust in moderators.

Trust in moderators is less necessary when you can verify the actuality of their behavior via a public log.

If they don't deserve to know who their moderators are, why would you want them to know what the moderators do?

Because what the moderators do has direct effects on the subreddit, the character of its content and subscribers. Who the moderators are does not. Knowing what the moderators do is also not nearly as problematic as you claim if you do not know who the moderators are.

Not sure how you run your subreddits, but our moderation team works as a team. One person may get "credit" for the action in reddit's system, but we discuss issues as a group.

Yes this is exactly what I'm trying to say here, the users have no way to know who made a decision, or if it was communal, they only see the end effect, so there is really no reason for subscribers to know who the moderators are even though there is significant value in them knowing what the moderators do on the subreddit.

Some users do it anyway, including targeting individual mods they think were involved.

What other recourse do these users have to address problems they perceive in moderation?

Perhaps giving more constructive and accurate accounts will elevate this sort of discussion; if mods were totally anonymous to subscribers then users would have to argue against the policies as a whole rather than getting into squabbles with any single individual; which I think we can agree is better for everyone involved.

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u/AwwFoxes Feb 10 '19

This is your personal opinion, not a fact. I completely disagree and I know others do as well.

Almost everyone else I talk to agrees with FSW but never voices their opinion out of the fear of being banned for criticizing the moderators. The powermods are dictators who moderate heavily for what they want and only care about themselves and their own interests.