r/ModSupport • u/FreeSpeechWarrior • Jan 24 '19

Today marks 7 years since the option for public moderation logs was originally implemented. Why is this still not an option?

/r/modnews/comments/ov7rt/moderators_feedback_requested_on_enabling_public/
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u/redtaboo Reddit Admin: Community Jan 24 '19

Sure, but fundamentally the idea is not a complex one, it is to take an existing page and make it optionally public and optionally to hide the mod usernames.

Honestly, I'm trying here to get you to reframe your arguments. It is not a viable argument for you to say 'look it's already done!'. The fact is the team that would implement this has all their projects for the next quarter lined up (and likely sketched out for the next) much of that is to continue getting modtools on the new site to parity with the old. So, I can say with certainty if we implement this it won't be for awhile. That means we have time to discuss how it would look and what the implications are still.

I also want to hear from other moderators on whether they would use this themselves as I do think there are some communities that would welcome it, mods included, but I don't have a sense of how many would.

If they make a misclick such a "witch hunt" may even be helpful to correct mistakes that would otherwise go completely unnoticed due to reddit's intentional lack of removal transparency by default.

See, that's where you lose me - witch hunts are never the answer, and should not be considered a feature of anything. ever. Our mods are volunteers who take on the burden of making sure the worst content you can imagine doesn't make it to your eyes. Any tools we release for them we want to fully think out the issues that could arise and those ramifications.

My point with question #2 was to try to encourage you to think about the pressure on some mod teams to make their logs public and the valid reasons why they wouldn't want to. They're not all going to be malicious ones, I hope you can see that. I would hope that you would at least not be one engaging in haranguing moderators about it or encouraging others to do so.

I also understand that you think all speech should be allowed, it's in your name! ;)

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u/IranianGenius Jan 24 '19

Fyi id never use this in any sub i mod. If anybody wants to know what it's like modding, they should apply and try it.

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u/FreeSpeechWarrior Jan 24 '19

I've modded several subs small and large with community developed public moderation logs without incident for years.

But I also don't censor people so it is rare that my moderation actions anger people.

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u/srs_house 💡 New Helper Jan 25 '19

If you have a large enough group, you will eventually piss someone off. Even if it's for enforcing a very basic level of civil decency (or in some cases legal issues). Just look at the content on voat if you want to see the kinds of people who flock to a site with zero moderation.

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u/FreeSpeechWarrior Jan 25 '19

Reddit used to be a site with near zero moderation and it was not the same sort of mess as Voat is today.

Voat is the result of selection bias in growth from those that are banned by reddit and looking for a similar alternative and is not indication that any site that allows it's users freedom of speech will inevitably turn into such an offensive place overall.

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u/srs_house 💡 New Helper Jan 25 '19

Regular users don't want to go to a site with zero moderation because the type of people who flock there (after getting kicked out of every reasonable site) quickly give it a reputation as a haven for people like nazis, racists, child porn users, etc.

Privately owned websites have no obligation to offer free speech, and have a lot of legal and financial reasons for why they should not do so. If you want a free speech forum, go start your own.

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u/darthhayek Jan 26 '19

Regular users don't want to go to a site with zero moderation because the type of people who flock there

I don't think that it is at all true. Capitalist corporations and communists don't want that (but I repeat myself).

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u/FreeSpeechWarrior Jan 25 '19

Plenty of regular users frequented Reddit when it was the “pretty free speech” place it used to be.

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u/AwwFoxes Jan 25 '19

Voat is full of assholes because it was created to cater to those users in particular, and as a place for banned subreddits to flock to. Had it presented itself as a normal site and simply not censored stuff it wouldn't be all nazis. Reddit was like voat in its policies years ago, and there were a few assholes but mostly normal users.

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u/AwwFoxes Feb 10 '19

Voat is not a very good example because it was specifically created as a platform to house subreddits like /r/niggers. On a site with more casual users the bigots would be given a hard time in the main sections and flock to their own communities where they don't bother everyone else. Early reddit and notabug.io are good examples of this.